[Boiler]

It's being discussed on Victoria Derbyshire at the moment.

But hey, trade. And regrettably, the UK is a world leader in instruments of warfare.

[The Red Arrow]

Don't it make you proud to be Bwitish?

[The Red Arrow]

Nice to see our free and fearless press holding power to account...

Adverts promoting Saudi Crown Prince in London mocked
UK news 2 hours ago
Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is beginning a three-day visit to the UK and people have noticed a lot of promotional adverts appearing in the papers, on black cabs, roadside billboards and vans.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/971316765023141894

[Timbo]

I honestly can't make my mind up about him. I'm leaning towards thinking that it probably takes a brutal, ruthless bastard to take on the clerics, his own family, and the entrenched conservatism of many of his subjects. He seems to have thought this whole thing out carefully, and neutered all potential opposition before even ascending to the throne.

I'm also of the mind that it's probably better in practical terms to have him in our camp rather than Russia's. From what I can gather, their contribution to our intelligence-gathering efforts is substantial.

[cycloon]

Probably right.

The public display is still grotesque, and I am not ever going to be 'OK' with arms dealing, as trite and piffling as that is worth.

[Bones McCoy]

I wonder how the BinSalman Mania is going down with the Kippers, the Biffers and the Barnsley Gammonites.

I predict a backlash in (shuffles away from lit firework) 3 .. 2 .. 1

[Bones McCoy]

I honestly can't make my mind up about him. I'm leaning towards thinking that it probably takes a brutal, ruthless bastard to take on the clerics, his own family, and the entrenched conservatism of many of his subjects. He seems to have thought this whole thing out carefully, and neutered all potential opposition before even ascending to the throne.

I'm also of the mind that it's probably better in practical terms to have him in our camp rather than Russia's. From what I can gather, their contribution to our intelligence-gathering efforts is substantial.

Let me paint it as I see it.
The country today is an Absolute Monarchy, Theocracy and a Dictatorship rolled into one.

Let's imagine Mohammed Bin Salman delivers his programme.
The country will be an Absolute Monarchy, Theocracy and Dictatorship with a few urban women drivers.

The new look super soaraway Guardian might hail that as a victory.
The half million South East Asian maids and construction workers won't notice a jot of difference.
The Yemeni civilians being bombed won't notice a jot of difference.
The security service will continue to play their 2 faced game of chicken.
But the beheadings might get moved somewhere private.

[Safe_Timber_Man]

The Mail (and The Sun yesterday) making it perfectly clear that they have absolutely no problem with selling arms to a highly dubious regime because the money is good.



Labour accused of putting thousands of defence jobs at risk by demanding an end to Saudi Arabian arms sales at the start of the crown prince's visit
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-ban.html

[Timbo]

I do think we also need to bear in mind that the alternative to al Saud family rule isn't liberal, secular democracy. It's an ISIS clone, with control of a modern armoury, and the world's oil market. Whilst the status quo makes me want to vomit, all of the most likely replacements involve unimaginable bloodshed throughout the world. I don't use that phrase lightly.

Bizarrely, what we are now seeing is someone slowly attempting to westernise Saudi Arabian culture at the point of a gun. It's the only way it was ever going to happen. The fact that they are spending so much money on PR here shows how keen they are for approval and encouragement of these changes, we'd be foolish to dismiss that.

[Kreuzberger]

Am I the only one slow enough or remote enough or perhaps conspiracy theorising enough to only now be scratching my head over this whole Jamal Khashoggi affair.

Indeed, he was the nephew of his hitherto more famous, arms-dealing and spectacularly well-connected namesake. Uncle Adnan sold his yacht to Trump which, in turn, was bought by another close royal family member of KSA.

So far, not very much. Big deal. Jet setters and fabulously wealthy people tend to move in tight, interconnected circles.

But why the very public death squad and the bone saws in a land, Turkey, that is the (a) ancestral home of the Khashoggi family?

This killing has more the ring of a very loud message being broadcast than a simple hit.

No? Somebody?

[The Red Arrow]

Ironic that Erdogan is getting milage out of concern for journalists.

[Bones McCoy]

I honestly can't make my mind up about him. I'm leaning towards thinking that it probably takes a brutal, ruthless bastard to take on the clerics, his own family, and the entrenched conservatism of many of his subjects. He seems to have thought this whole thing out carefully, and neutered all potential opposition before even ascending to the throne.

I'm also of the mind that it's probably better in practical terms to have him in our camp rather than Russia's. From what I can gather, their contribution to our intelligence-gathering efforts is substantial.

Let me paint it as I see it.
The country today is an Absolute Monarchy, Theocracy and a Dictatorship rolled into one.

Let's imagine Mohammed Bin Salman delivers his programme.
The country will be an Absolute Monarchy, Theocracy and Dictatorship with a few urban women drivers.

The new look super soaraway Guardian might hail that as a victory.
The half million South East Asian maids and construction workers won't notice a jot of difference.
The Yemeni civilians being bombed won't notice a jot of difference.
The security service will continue to play their 2 faced game of chicken.
But the beheadings might get moved somewhere private.

An embassy on foreign soil, for example.

[Bones McCoy]

Am I the only one slow enough or remote enough or perhaps conspiracy theorising enough to only now be scratching my head over this whole Jamal Khashoggi affair.

Indeed, he was the nephew of his hitherto more famous, arms-dealing and spectacularly well-connected namesake. Uncle Adnan sold his yacht to Trump which, in turn, was bought by another close royal family member of KSA.

So far, not very much. Big deal. Jet setters and fabulously wealthy people tend to move in tight, interconnected circles.

But why the very public death squad and the bone saws in a land, Turkey, that is the (a) ancestral home of the Khashoggi family?

This killing has more the ring of a very loud message being broadcast than a simple hit.

No? Somebody?

Salisbury poisoning, with different actors.

The worrying development is that 2 significant powers have both resorted to assassination of dissidents in 3rd countries.
2 isn't sufficient sample to know whether this will be a growing trend, and whether worldwide security services will now open chapter 7 of their respective playbooks.

At the very least there's potential for all kinds of international tensions.
Let's home there's no Archduke Ferdinand incident.

[Andy McDandy]

I think there's a general shift in thinking at that level, that the rules don't matter so much these days, and international cooperation is fading. Gloves off and may the dirtiest fighter win.

[The Red Arrow]

Yep. It would seem that that the old maxim about the biggest crime being getting caught no longer applies.