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The WTO

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:06 am
by Biggus Robbus
Is there anything to worry about with the UK only being on WTO terms in the event of a no deal Brexit?

Re: The WTO

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:01 am
by Malcolm Armsteen

Re: The WTO

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:53 am
by bluebellnutter
The UK might not even get to as it can't get it's scheduled signed off

Re: The WTO

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:16 am
by youngian
You have to be a wizard to understand the intricacies of the WTO and a shark to negotiate in it. But you swot up to understand as much as you can to keep hold of the narrative. One thing I have discovered; its yet another organisation Brexiters know fuck all about.

Re: The WTO

Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:27 am
by Big Arnold

Re: The WTO

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 12:55 am
by Biggus Robbus
What is the WTO and why should we be sure that something we don't really know about will help us?

At least you know that bitch the EU.

But now you will run off with.........................................the WTO

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Re: The WTO

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:20 pm
by Biggus Robbus
The only country I know that has succeed on WTO terms is China.

Trump is up in arms about the WTO. Actually this is one of the few areas where I have sympathy with Trump.

Image

Mind you the EU has similar problems.

Image

Maybe the EU should have a hissy fit and leave the WTO?

However the EU is trying to save the WTO. How nice they are to Britain.

Re: The WTO

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:56 pm
by Kreuzberger
What's the Y-Axis? (Cash, real terms, trade weighted, real or constant prices between national or trading blocks with near zero or growth based domestic inflation?)

Without context, this is just a picture. There are lots of those on the internet.

Re: The WTO

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:17 am
by Biggus Robbus
Pictures on the internet.

They keep me going.

Re: The WTO

Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:10 pm
by Biggus Robbus
Kreuzberger wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:56 pm
What's the Y-Axis? (Cash, real terms, trade weighted, real or constant prices between national or trading blocks with near zero or growth based domestic inflation?)

Without context, this is just a picture. There are lots of those on the internet.
Oops. My bad for browsing the internet while tired.

Euros I believe are the Y axis.

I suppose I could g link a load of websites with data about the EU trade deficit with China but the deficit is hardly surprising

As it is Trump hates the WTO. I actually have some sympathy with him in this respect. The WTO was never set up to protect labour rights.

Re: The WTO

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:13 am
by Bones McCoy
Not sure I'm getting the point of the infographics.

If it's to persuade us that a large, low cost mass manufacturing sector sells more stuff than high cost specialised manufacturing, we already knew.

This stuff is usually a precursor for some Randian minister to trot out a campaign for workers to tighten their belts so we can competete more effectively.

Always the workers.
Never the Landlord who trousers half that worker's take-home and won't be offering discounts.
Never the CEO who sees a 20% rise in a bad year.

Re: The WTO

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 4:34 pm
by Biggus Robbus
The point is China is a low wage economy in terms of manufacturing workers at least.

It does well, without free trade agreements with the US and EU, on purely WTO terms.

However it can take the WTO tariff hit and overheads precisely because of low labour costs and devaluation of its currency, which in turn leads to inflation.

If the UK left the EU on WTO terms, it would effectively be an equal trade partner with China. It would have to compete directly with Chinese labour costs and the Chinese currency.

Surely that is a frightening prospect.

*edit - I know it looks like I was passively aggressively ignoring your post Bones however....

I actually have some sympathy with Trump's attitude to China. Globalisation has cost American jobs and destroyed America communities. It probably already has damaged some EU economies (hence the charts), although I notice how some countries like Germany seem to take some care to prevent the worst effects of this.

That said the WTO has never been interested in labour rights.

It may be true to argue, that unlike the UK's argument for leaving the EU, the WTO and countries in the WTO like China may need the WTO more than the large western economies need the WTO.

Re: The WTO

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:41 pm
by Andy McDandy
Here's a thing. How much would you like to pay for your PC or tablet?

Hundreds? Probably. Thousands? Possibly, for a top line model. Tens of thousands? Fuck off.

Hence globalisation. It's the reason we're able to moan about it online.

Re: The WTO

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:15 pm
by Biggus Robbus
Andy McDandy wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 7:41 pm
Here's a thing. How much would you like to pay for your PC or tablet?

Hundreds? Probably. Thousands? Possibly, for a top line model. Tens of thousands? Fuck off.

Hence globalisation. It's the reason we're able to moan about it online.
Then you are okay with that being produced in countries with shit labour rights?

Maybe we should get rid of our labour rights so we can "compete".

Or maybe you should pay people what they are worth.

As I said in another thread the EU's biggest mistake was not to introduce an EU wide minimum wage; to level the playing field.

As it is, with economies of scale I could produce tablets at a reasonable cost in western countries. How do I know this? I design electronics and write software for a living. The reason electronics is produced in China is to maximise profits. Western capitalists make a lot of money producing their shit in China.

Re: The WTO

Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:45 pm
by Andy McDandy
Yeah, and in an ideal world Konnie Huq is blowing me right now. In a non-sexist sense.

You deal with the situation in front of you. Yes, the world's unfair. Yes, it'd be great if we all lived in harmony on equal wages and an honest ploughman gets the same as the businessman in his suit and tie and the sun rises over loch bollocks and all that. But, in the immortal words of Icey Tea, shit ain't like that and it's real fucked up. And to be honest, rather someone else than me.

I've benefited from being a white straight man in an Anglospheric country. Never asked for it, never contemplated trading it in. Would I swap it all to be a jizz mopper at a two bit nipple peep show in Rio de Janeiro? Fuck no.

Deal with the situation in front of you.