Area for all other political discussion
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By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Posts
#416253
I can't argue with much of that.

We had our first post-election CLP meeting yesterday evening and the key complaint about the campaign was the lack of rebuttal of Tory untruths. This was a long-term problem with the Milliband leadership and it was at crisis levels in the GE. In fact we have one new member who (although a long - term Labour voter) joined because of it. We really needed an Alastair Campbell figure and a rapid rebuttal unit, that was so key to winning in 1997.

Quite how you get your rebuttals out in the present climate of press domination by the Tories is another matter. Campbell could do it because of his credentials and standing in the industry. I'm not aware that we've got anyone at the moment who could do the job. Unless Alastair comes back...
By Watchman
Membership Days Posts
#416275
If Campbell came back, I have the feeling that his response to the current status would make Macolm Tucker look like a presenter on Playschool .............on the other hand..........!
 
By Littlejohn's brain
Membership Days Posts
#416281
If Campbell came back the press and some on the left would say what about Iraq.
 
By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Posts
#416282
What about Iraq?
He wasn't a politician, he bears no responsibility. Or do you mean the 'dodgy dossier'?

And why would we care if our enemies found another reason to attack us, because as we are all aware if we do what we are told they leave us alone...
 
By D.C. Harrison
Membership Days Posts
#416284
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:And why would we care if our enemies found another reason to attack us, because as we are all aware if we do what we are told they leave us alone...

It doesn't matter how squeaky clean you think someone is, the press will always find something to throw at you.

Maybe they went on a date in 1982 to see ET, which becomes a tale of wandering hands and not calling her again.

I suspect the time to give a fuck is over. Get the best lads and lasses in place to get flinging (well researched and effective) shite at this government.
 
By Littlejohn's brain
Membership Days Posts
#416286
I was referring to the dodgy dossier but yeah we should stop giving a fuck about what the press.
 
By Kreuzberger
Membership Days Posts
#416292
D.C. Harrison wrote:
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:And why would we care if our enemies found another reason to attack us, because as we are all aware if we do what we are told they leave us alone...

It doesn't matter how squeaky clean you think someone is, the press will always find something to throw at you.

Maybe they went on a date in 1982 to see ET, which becomes a tale of wandering hands and not calling her again.

I suspect the time to give a fuck is over. Get the best lads and lasses in place to get flinging (well researched and effective) shite at this government.


If they have nothing on you, they could make up some shite about your dad hating Britain and trawl through the memory card on a 15 fps camera to find a unflattering shot of you with the nation's favourite breakfast treat.
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Posts
#417371
Puts me in mind of the best insult hurled from the terracing that I've ever heard . It went like this :

"Haw, McQueen!!! Away an' throw shite at yourself ! "
 
By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Posts
#417373
"Oi, referee, I wouldn't piss in your best hat" - delivered in a Cornish accent.


Back to the election, we have a LG by-election on Thursday and a phone canvasser is reporting that areas that seemed firmly for us before May are now reporting as heavily Tory.

It's going to be a long road back.
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#417388
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:Back to the election, we have a LG by-election on Thursday and a phone canvasser is reporting that areas that seemed firmly for us before May are now reporting as heavily Tory.
That sort of post election bounce is fairly normal though. SNP are polling 60 per cent for the next Holyrood election.
Last edited by youngian on Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:02 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
By D.C. Harrison
Membership Days Posts
#417390
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:Back to the election, we have a LG by-election on Thursday and a phone canvasser is reporting that areas that seemed firmly for us before May are now reporting as heavily Tory.

Is part of that people wanting to be seen (even to just some random stranger on the phone) as being on "the winning side"?

"Yeah, Tories. Voted for them, mate. Miliband? Only a right idiot would have voted for that loser."
 
By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Posts
#417397
youngian wrote:
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:Back to the election, we have a LG by-election on Thursday and a phone canvasser is reporting that areas that seemed firmly for us before May are now reporting as heavily Tory.
That sort of post election bounce is fairly normal though. SNP are polling 60 per cent for the next Holyrood election.


He's interpreting it as shy Tories no longer shy...
 
By Littlejohn's brain
Membership Days Posts
#417405
Excellent piece from Sunny Hundal

http://labourlist.org/2015/06/we-failed ... he-public/

Thirdly, thanks to the echo-chamber and cultural gap, we have become obsessed about language or tone that betrays a shift to the right. Like an angry partner worried about betrayal, people on Twitter instantly pounce on any wording by Labour MPs that sounds like a shift to the right. We probably spent more time in the last 5 years arguing over words and tone than policies and tactics. We have become obsessed by the notion that the overton window could shift to the right if we adopt their language or tone.

But it’s not language or tone that shifts the public debate to the right, it’s the fact that we keep losing. People listens to winners not losers, and the left keeps losing. We may stick to our principles but the public is steadily moving away from them. And so we keep losing more. And in turn we desperately cling on to what we can control: the use of our own language and tone.
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#417424
I'd agree with that and the second point about Blair.

The first one I think is a bit more nuanced
First, we were shocked by the Tory victory because our left-wing echo chamber reinforced the view that people really hated them. We had convinced ourselves there was no chance the Conservatives would increase their share of the vote. We just didn’t understand why people would vote for them as it was so obvious why they were hated. The echo-chamber not only shields us from conflicting views, it also compounds the shock when people don’t behave as we expect them to. It may be reassuring but the echo-chamber is also self-destructive in the end.

I was of the view that the Conservatives weren't hated (despite hating them personally with a passion) but had lost the centre ground the way the Republicans had in America. Perhaps it was the Lib Dems that had kept them grounded. Ed Miliband not looking like a PM was the main reason for the defeat but I don't believe Labour's policies were unpopular, just not relevant to crucial swing voters who didn't trust Miliband's as competent enough to deliver anyway. But Miliband's strategy of targeting different groups such as renters and those effected by the bedroom tax should in no way be abandoned. The voters Labour needs to reach couldn't give a shit either way.
 
By Messianic Trees
Membership Days Posts
#418111
A defeat to reckon with: On Scotland, economic competence, and the complexities of Labour's losses
Rather than a failure to win over the support of relatively affluent, more 'aspirational' middle-class voters, the Achilles' heel of Labour's campaign appears to have been a failure to convince those who were sceptical about the Conservatives' economic record that Labour offered an attractive alternative.

There can be little doubt that one of Labour's key failures in the last five years was its inability to restore its reputation for economic competence. On that, all wings of the party can probably agree. But restoring that reputation need not necessarily be synonymous with embracing a conservative approach to handling the nation’s finances or the economy more generally. What Labour has to ask itself is not only why it failed to attract the support of voters who were concerned about the deficit, but also why it often struggled to secure the support of those who were doubtful about the way in which the deficit and the economy were being handled in the first place. Many of the latter were working-class voters among whom Labour suffered a sharp loss of support in 2010 which they failed to reverse in 2015. Labour needs to convince the electorate not only that it can run the economy well, but that it is capable of creating a more attractive economy. Then, perhaps, voters not just in England and Wales but in Scotland too would be willing to look at the party afresh once more.
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