Area for all other political discussion
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By Littlejohn's brain
Membership Days Posts
#322554
I was wondering what are people's thoughts on HS2 on here? The likes of the TPA often gnash their teeth in fury at HS2 but lately those
on the left are starting to voice their opposistion
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#322565
The original point still stands; how much will it cost to patch up an overcapacity Victorian railway line for the next two hundred years?

The figures are amortised capital cost spread over decades. And whatsmore if you rely on accountants to grant you permission to execute great leap forwards in civil engineering little would ever get done.
 
By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Posts
#493905
Apologies for the thread bump but the hybrid HS2 bill passed the final stage of the vote in the Lord's today and is due to go for Royal Assent on 7th February. Shovels in the ground within weeks it would seem.
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Posts
#493907
Littlejohn's brain wrote:I was wondering what are people's thoughts on HS2 on here? The likes of the TPA often gnash their teeth in fury at HS2 but lately those
on the left are starting to voice their opposistion
There wasn't really any left opposition. Ed Balls was acting "sceptical" to play Gilligan etc.
 
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Posts
#493932
I remember that everyone, even on the right, was very pro-HS2, right until they realised it'd be going through some nice gardens in the south east.
By Watchman
Membership Days Posts
#493942
I should imagine by now we have reached critical mass, in that too much money has been spent on it, for it not to go ahead
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#493943
Cant make my mind up about it TBH. On the positive side, it will relieve capacity on the West Coast Main Line, putting all the fast traffic from London to Manchester/Leeds onto HS2 will free up the existing routes and allow more semi-fasts and stoppers to use them.

On the other hand, I cant help but get the feeling that it is something of a vanity project, and that the money could be spent on improving local services and reopening some of the lines which were closed under Beeching. Also, I suspect the fares on HS2 will be expensive and most of its users will be business people. With the growth in technology, Skype etc, there could be less need to travel up and down the country for business meetings by the time it is open.

I am a don't know on this
 
By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Posts
#493953
I get your point on technology but there will always be a need for people to travel up and down the country, and nobody has yet worked out a way of emailing a shipping container.

The way I think of it is like this. The French HSL network killed off internal air travel, and decimated air travel from Paris to Brussels. If the service was more frequent (and it will be in the future), the same will be true of London to either of those two. And a new main line from London to the north is badly needed, and has been for the last 40 years. The extra cost to make it high speed is actually minimal, and in many ways cuts down on costs as it can go over rather than through hills etc. So for a little bit more money you potentially make a huge amount of savings on pollution and emissions.

As for the impact on Stage 2, it could. But it may be cheaper to keep them on and build it, with a lot of nice big employment opportunities to keep the figures down if Brexit goes properly tits up. Think autobahns.
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Posts
#495889
mr angry manchester wrote:Cant make my mind up about it TBH. On the positive side, it will relieve capacity on the West Coast Main Line, putting all the fast traffic from London to Manchester/Leeds onto HS2 will free up the existing routes and allow more semi-fasts and stoppers to use them.

On the other hand, I cant help but get the feeling that it is something of a vanity project, and that the money could be spent on improving local services and reopening some of the lines which were closed under Beeching. Also, I suspect the fares on HS2 will be expensive and most of its users will be business people. With the growth in technology, Skype etc, there could be less need to travel up and down the country for business meetings by the time it is open.

I am a don't know on this
Most of the figures you see for reopening lines closed by Beeching have been produced by the scheme's promoters. Borders Rail has been a success in terms of numbers, but that was a link into a big city from an area with no railway lines at all, with nothing much in the way, which isn't true of most proposals.

There's a lot already being done to improve existing lines. The latest 5 year Network Rail period has £38.4bn of work in it, before a spade goes into the ground for HS2. A lot of that will be Crossrail, but even so it's pretty impressive. There are currently 4,000 carriages/engines on order.

Lots of the existing work is over budget and behind schedule, so it's not really feeding through yet.

HS2 relieves the ECML as well, plus the slow "Cross Country" line from Birmingham to Leeds etc. Beyond that, it should be a catalyst for other improvements. If you can get from eg Crewe to London in under an hour, then there's more of a case for improving the journeys into Crewe. So it's not really a zero sum game in terms of HS2 being built and not other stuff.
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