Area for all other political discussion
:sunglasses: 41.8 % ❤ 3.8 % :thumbsup: 7.4 % 😯 3.8 % :grinning: 36.1 % 🧥 1.4 % 🙏 1 % 😟 1.9 % :cry: 2.2 % :shit: 0.5 %
By Oblomov
"Intolerable denial of democracy"

The bare faced cheek of this given how much in bad faith the Leave argument was made.
Kreuzberger liked this
By Malcolm Armsteen
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Simon Kuper in the Financial Times: ... a-GkFg9CYE
• Many Tories are cynics faking it. They publicly back no deal, knowing it would be a disaster, but are counting on the rest of parliament to stop it. They just want to sound hard, because they live in fear of deselection by their hard-Brexiter local parties. Tory MPs know that the job market for ex-Tory MPs is currently pretty weak.

• The corollary: there is no political advantage in grasping reality if your voters don’t. Steven Sloman, cognitive scientist at Brown University, points out that most people cannot describe the workings of a toilet. The EU and the international trade system are even trickier. Sloman says the only way to handle complex issues is therefore to listen to experts. Politicians sometimes did that, until populism came along.

• Widmerpoolism. Kenneth Widmerpool, the creation of English novelist Anthony Powell, has become a byword for the blind will to power. Educated at a school modelled on Powell’s Eton, Widmerpool builds a glittering career (including a stint as MP) on tireless manipulative infighting. Powell’s insight applies here: after correcting for birth, power goes to the people most committed to getting it.

• An inability to admit past error. If you have supported Brexit for years, you will look silly if you let new information nuance your views. Recall how Dominic Raab was mocked for confessing he “hadn’t quite understood the full extent” of the UK’s dependence on the Dover-Calais crossing for trade. Karen Bradley received similar treatment for admitting that she only discovered while Northern Ireland secretary that Northern Irish nationalists “don’t vote for unionist parties and vice versa”. It’s safer for politicians to be consistently wrong.

• If your genuine beliefs contradict reality, deny reality. Tory MP John Redwood is a fanatical Brexiter. So when he wrote that the UK’s exit bill on leaving the EU was “Zero. Nothing. Zilch”, as if Britain held all the cards, he was probably forcing himself not to see reality. A related Tory trait is what the French call volontarisme: the notion that willpower can change reality.

• Denying reality proves your fanaticism to other fanatics. Tory MP Daniel Kawczynski tweeted in February: “Britain helped to liberate half of Europe . . . No Marshall Plan for us only for Germany.” In fact, as thousands of people swiftly told him, Britain was the Plan’s largest beneficiary. Yet Kawczynski stood by his false claim for two weeks. By holding firm against reality, he signalled his loyalty to the cause.

• Laziness. In the British gentleman-dilettante tradition, many Conservative politicians leave boring detail to civil servants. Added to that is the callowness of today’s Tories, the luckiest members of the luckiest British generation in history. When you know your class will always prosper, you can afford airy gambles. Hence Cameron’s bet that a referendum would put the European issue to bed, reunite the Tory party and see off the threat from Nigel Farage.

• Stupidity and ignorance. Some people sound stupid or ignorant because they are stupid or ignorant. That could explain the Tory MP Nadine Dorries’s complaint that May’s deal would leave the UK without MEPs after Brexit; or MP Andrew Bridgen’s belief that “English” people are entitled to ask for an Irish passport (that Ireland is a forgotten British possession probably played a role too).

Ignorant people can succeed if success depends on other, unrelated qualities. Many companies promote good-looking people. The Tory party promotes articulate public schoolboys.
Boiler, Big Arnold, Arrowhead and 4 others liked this
By Oblomov
Listened to some R4 coverage on the Peterborough by-election and some Brexit party voting loon said we should just get on with it and leave and no deal wouldn't matter because we've picked ourselves up from the war before so we can do it again.

They neglected to mention if they had been born after the war mind :roll:
By Boiler
Oblomov wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 1:45 pm
Listened to some R4 coverage on the Peterborough by-election and some Brexit party voting loon said we should just get on with it and leave and no deal wouldn't matter because we've picked ourselves up from the war before so we can do it again.

They neglected to mention if they had been born after the war mind :roll:
From ... ys-farage/
However, some people maintain that the key objective of D-Day was to allow the grandchildren of some veterans to puff up their chest and strut around like they had personally taken out a machine gun nest. For them, the legacy of World War 2 is basically about hurling childish insults at German people.
By Big Arnold
Membership Days Posts
Brexit: suspending parliament should not be ruled out, says Dominic Raab

Tory leadership contender says dropping widely criticised idea would weaken UK negotiating position
Raab said it was unlikely to come to that because MPs’ powers to block a no-deal Brexit were limited. He said that if chosen as Tory leader he would return to Brussels with a “best, final offer” - including the removal of the Irish backstop – but insist there could be no further delay, and that the UK would be prepared to leave without a deal.

“I think anyone who is talking about delay or who is taking [World Trade Organization trade terms] off the table is having the perverse effect of weakening our negotiating position in Brussels. That’s the lesson of the last three years,” he said. ... minic-raab
By Dan
Membership Days Membership Days
The threat is probably empty because I strongly suspect that Brenda is putting the message out in the strongest possible terms not to drag her into this. Should this happen, she has to make a decision on the most volatile issue the country has faced in my lifetime in terms of how it has split the country. Approval or rejection will be seen and spun as her having taken a "side" in the argument

The Royal Family are pretty high in the public's affection right now but should she, as I expect she would, reject any request to prorogue Parliament simply to force policy through against its will, then I suspect the Brexiters who see Brexit as almost like a religious cult may deviate from their "'er Maj, Gawd bless 'er and I'd give that Meghan/Kate one" to squeals and screams of "traitor" and "treachery".

I can't see her having that.

This and I suspect an attempt will result in an immediate no confidence vote which will probably be won this time.

I suspect he's just a complete imbecile who believes that if he sounds "tough" enough, the EU will cower and give him exactly what he wants.
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