Area for all other political discussion
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By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#539366
Arnold gives some rather differing accounts of this accident
I know this as I was near enough to hear the bang.
though I'd given them photos of three wrecked vehicles, and debris strewn all over the road.
Of course it would be unreasonable of me, to point out that Arnold is using an article from a local paper to cast doubt over the attack on the Skirpals, not to mention that he's swallowing the Kremlin about you can't trust any media.
Last edited by The Weeping Angel on Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
By cycloon
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#539367
Arnold wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:55 pm
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:30 pm
The Stop the War Coalition are calling it an ‘alleged attack’...
Although with the current media reporting, why should we just believe what we are told? Earlier today I referred to a local road traffic collision involving a van hitting two cars and a wall. The police told the local paper that a van had merely hit a wall, and that's what it reported even though I'd given them photos of three wrecked vehicles, and debris strewn all over the road.
I accept that the photos of gassed children are real, but where were the photos of body parts left by the time delay cluster bombs we've used in the Middle East? At least you've got a chance of surviving an improvised chemical weapon.
Take the Skripals. Who do we believe? The Russians or a Government with an unsackable serial liar for Foreign Secretary. Amber Rudd has claimed that rising crime was not due to police cuts, despite the near certainty that someone would leak the documents that suggested otherwise.
I'm only going to deal with this, because I'm tired.

They are not mutually exclusive. Moral outrage at one does not do anything with the other. This is fundamentally simple, and your weighing of life-chances is completely missing the point.

Edit: one thing on Skripal. 'Who do we believe?' How about not the venal, lying Russian government, and not Boris Johnson.
 
By Cyclist
Membership Days Posts
#539770
cycloon wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43741140

Of course, as we all know, international committees are actually Globalist Soros-funded Wonks dedicated only to obfuscation.
As directed by their Bilderberger Overlords
 
By Daley Mayle
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#539780
Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson said: "There can be no doubt what was used."

He added: "There remains no alternative explanation about who was responsible - only Russia has the means, motive and record."
Prove it.

There's no nuance with Johnson, this being a requirement that should appear in the opening paragraph of the advert for the job as Foreign Secretary.
By visage
Membership Days Posts
#539784
What if the proof involves disclosing things that shouldnt be made public?

This is the real issue. The erosion of faith in government. Putin doesnt need to worry about that, he'll get elected regardless. But its a pretty good way of created paralysis in our snowflake democracies.

I wonder how many people demanded proof when Russia was putting ICBMs into Cuba?
Malcolm Armsteen liked this
 
By Daley Mayle
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#539786
'motive'
What was the motive in Russia carrying out a brazen attack a couple of months away from hosting the World Cup where Putin hoped to show himself as 21st century leader of a wonderful, welcoming country?

'means'
Then there's the reference to a murderous 'military grade' nerve agent being used that's not very good at killing people. Maybe a 'hobby grade' version was used or Novichoklite.

'record'
I'll allow him that.

By the way, I truly believed Blair and had faith in our Parliamentary system when they concluded Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.
 
By cycloon
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#539788
Motives might play around with any/all of the following: neutralising a treasonous national, neutering alternative power bases, sending messages to certain expats, satisfying personal vendettas, bolstering domestic-aimed narratives of strength and control, sheer bloody minded sowing of chaos, dealing with a nearly/still active agent because ?, god-knows what else?

The World Cup is part of this, but far from anything core, beyond being another arm of Russia's cultural diplomacy (that bleeds easily into obfuscation), and is a legacy of efforts that happened long, long before Ukraine exploded. Putin is not sat waiting at Domodedovo wringing his hands about the flower arrangements. He's spending a lot more time backing Assad and ensuring he consolidates a fourth term in office.
Cyclist liked this
 
By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#539791
For the talk of the World Cup, it's worth noting that a few months after cuddly uncle Vlad welcomed the world to Russia for the Winter Olympics and the Russians made fun of the fact their opening ceremony had something go wrong in the closing ceremony and everyone had a good old laugh their tanks rolled into the Crimea.
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#539798
Then there's the reference to a 'military grade' nerve agent being used that's not very good at killing people. Maybe a 'hobby grade' version was used or Novichoklite.
Daley I posted a link explaining this written by someone who is an actual expert in chemical weapons, I'd advise you read it.
 
By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#539811
Littlejohn's brain wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:08 pm
Then there's the reference to a 'military grade' nerve agent being used that's not very good at killing people. Maybe a 'hobby grade' version was used or Novichoklite.
Daley I posted a link explaining this written by someone who is an actual expert in chemical weapons, I'd advise you read it.
Daley! You've just been dissed!
ADMIN EDIT: ad hominem removed. Please play nice.
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