Area for all other political discussion
By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
It is a truth universally acknowledged that British politics, if not the nation itself, is broken. And, vide Proverbs, where there is no vision the people perish.

In the car back from the awful expo today Mrs A and I put the world to rights. Or at least England, possibly Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland (though we would prefer Irish unification). We agreed that only revolutionary change can make a difference, such as that of 1945 and the establishment of the Welfare State and the adoption of the Beveridge Report.

That answer can only come from the Labour Party, or possibly a Lab-Lib coalition. A progressive alliance.

Labour needs a new, young, inspirational leader. Someone not attached to one of the tribes, and certainly not the Trots-bourgeoisie. A Macron/Trudeau/Blair figure. But with fewer weaknesses.

The Lab-Lib coalition must make the case that our polity is no longer fit for purpose, that the people are distressed and that major change is required.

They must take as their model the Beveridge Report. They must set out clearly, and fairly, the giants on our road to social progress - which this time would be attitudes as well as attributes. Racism, misogyny and gender discrimination, poverty and paucity, poor education, affordable housing, social mobility, regional decay - for starters. Identify and explain, highlight the ogres that are preventing our development as a nation.

The myth that everything British is best has to be laid. We have to look at other nations and aspire to the best standards that we see. Often in our discussion we compared the UK to other states - Danish child care, French retirement age, Italian primary education, Dutch tolerance.

This would take at least a year.

Then there would be the commission to plan for action to combat these ogres - preferably as part of a progressive coalition. Each giant to have its own policy strand, its own killer reforms.

Put the document, Beveridge 2, to the people in an election, win. For this it will be vital for Scotland and Wales to take part, for all they have partially devolved government they must also be part of the general progress. I would prefer to move towards a unified Ireland at this point - I’ve been of that opinion since 1968.

Perhaps Scotland and Wales will have further devolution, or independence in a British Federation. No options should be ruled out.

Then invest in the change as necessary - no more nuclear weapons nonsense, no more ‘favourable’ tax cuts for the rich and the hedge funds.

Not a bad plan for a 20 mile drive. What does the team think?
Abernathy, Timbo, Oblomov liked this
By Boiler
It's a noble idea... and it's doomed to failure.

Walk through a city centre in the Midlands or Northern England on a Saturday afternoon and tell me you can sell it to the people you meet.

Away from this particular forum, look on others (especially if they allow political discussion) and tell me that some of the people you meet on them would ever countenance it. There are plenty of people who will fight tooth and claw to protect their current position of (often white) privilege and resent anyone telling them they should consider change. And, dare I say it - who'll pay for it?

Sorry Malc, good though it is (and it is good) it won't fly. For every good person you meet there's a hundred selfish berks and therein lies the problem because you won't change them. Sometimes for your own sanity it's just best to pull up the drawbridge and disengage from society; I find I am doing it more and more.
By Boiler
And you think we can change the minds of people who only want to keep their position in the pile at the expense of anyone and everyone else?

The ever-present cynic in me doubts the reforms that came about after WW2 would have done without said war occurring prior. Remember, you live in a country that made Trump president and his idea of Making America Great Again doesn't extend across all of American society, now does it?
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
All good, Malc. The only place I might need to draw the line is that salvation will of necessity need to come from the Labour Party.

Jeremy Corbyn isn't immortal, but he might as well be, such is the unbreakable death-grip that he has on the Labour Party. And I'm sadly now convinced that as long as he sustains that grip, the party is simply unelectable in terms of any meaningful return to government.

I just hope Chuka is up to the task that just might be his destiny yet.
By Biggus Robbus
A good idea would be to abandon moral absolutes when it comes to solving a problem. That was something Blair was adept at and the right hated him for having the intelligence to do what he thought was best given a new situation.

For all the people who compared Blair to Cameron, it was true that Cameron did not have the intellectual capacity to grasp the concept of shifting your moral compass when presented with a new issue. If it smells like a Tory it is a Tory. Candy coating turds is a waste of time.

Fox News and the Tea Party in the US of A killed the hope and change Obama wanted to bring. Basically rich men winding up the worst instincts in people who have had their dreams and hopes stripped away from them by the same group of rich men. Just like the Mail in the UK.

However at least in the US Trump is blissfully unaware of the real motives of congressional republicans. He is stupid however he actually does give a shit about ordinary Americans at least. Although he can take a running jump for his lack of political pluralism and frontal assault on the constitution in my book.

That said his and Bannon's attacks on the uberneoliberal Koch brothers were long overdue.

If there is a brighter future it will involve critical thinking. It will involve the likes of the Daily Mail and Fox News, as well as poor articles from more liberal and left media, being scrutinized by schoolchildren. The hard right and left exist because teaching children to think for themselves is called indoctrination by those groups.

There are concerns to be addressed. Especially for the sections of society left behind by globalisation. Taking away peoples' way of lives and giving it to other people because it costs less to do that is a recipe for social disaster.

Rich, in spite of managing to be rich, never seem to learn a damn thing.
By lord_kobel
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
Biggus Robbus wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:47 pm
However at least in the US Trump is blissfully unaware of the real motives of congressional republicans. He is stupid however he actually does give a shit about ordinary Americans at least.
Yeah, no. The guy has made what little money he still has on the backs of fucking over ordinary Americans. He's stupid, but he's also evil.
By Biggus Robbus
I disagree. I think he is "for" the ordinary American. However his spectacular stupidity makes them worse off.

His spectacular stupidity is demonstrated by tariffs on Chinese and other foreign products. That said when Smoot-Hawley levied their tariffs during the Great Depression the US was actually in a trade surplus with other countries so we should not follow moral absolutes here.

If capitalists can shift their means of doing business around the world too easily then we are in the situation we are now.

Trump tried to invert that paradigm. Even though he is an idiot in his approach and cannot see the bigger picture.
By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
Cheers guys.
Thread about possible political development in the UK becomes another thread about Trump.
Timbo liked this
By Boiler
Bringing it back on topic; over on another forum I am seriously wondering about copying the Met Online Hate Crime unit in on a post in a private section. I doubt in the greater scheme of things it's serious enough to warrant investigation by them, but with attitudes like this individual's now freely discussed online with no sanction, how do you deal with people like that poster? They believe they are right and I'm not entirely sure you can just say it's down to GIFT. Online racism seems to be growing rapidly and it's becoming ever bolder in the offline world. How do you get that genie back in the bottle?

My big worry Malc, is that the only way to build this new Jerusalem will be to let our current society collapse completely into a dystopia first, horrific though that prospect is.
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 11:20 pm
Cheers guys.
Thread about possible political development in the UK becomes another thread about Trump.
And did those feet, in ancient time, walk upon England's montains green? And was the holy lamb of god on England's pleasant pastures seen?

No, mate.
By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
Satire, innit.
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
Matthew Goodwin

Goodwin shown up by his former co-author. The ex[…]

Labour, Generally.

Backing Sinn Fein - do they never fucking learn?

Loyalty is definitely over-rated, and in reality, […]

Dominic Cummings

I recall Cummings was very sanguine about free sch[…]