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Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:41 am
by Giant f*cking Sudoku
RE Lib Dems not fascists

Vichy collaborators? ;)

Man, I dread the day younger people come to power in this country, completely oblivious to the wretched lessons of WWII

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:14 pm
by ezinra
Giant f*cking Sudoku wrote:Vichy collaborators? ;)
I was thinking about Vichy, too. Basically because it's a borderline example. There were certainly fascists within the Vichy administration, but was it in itself fascist? The blurriness applies to other WW2 puppet and pre-WW2 proto-fascist regimes too: Primo de Rivera in Spain, Napoleon III…

I don't really buy the idea that a political ideology — even one as ephemeral as fascism — can be defined objectively. What's certain, though, is that the dimwit commenters are wrong.

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:59 pm
by Giant f*cking Sudoku
The collaboration enabled the fascism to flourish. You can apply that to France in the '40s, or England today. Cuts to legal aid are arguably a progenitor of fascism, because if you're penniless and can't appeal a negative Atos verdict, you're effectively on the train to Dachau. But like the student fees, the LibDems (and some GPs) are falling into line, and playing along, instead of speaking out. They want to obey their masters, and hold onto the power they've got, but there will be a reckoning, there always is.

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:44 pm
by oboogie
Giant f*cking Sudoku wrote:The collaboration enabled the fascism to flourish. You can apply that to France in the '40s, or England today. Cuts to legal aid are arguably a progenitor of fascism, because if you're penniless and can't appeal a negative Atos verdict, you're effectively on the train to Dachau. But like the student fees, the LibDems (and some GPs) are falling into line, and playing along, instead of speaking out. They want to obey their masters, and hold onto the power they've got, but there will be a reckoning, there always is.
Where that analogy falls down is that Clegg didn't have any panzer divisions breathing down his neck. In 1940 France was going to be under fascist rule one way or another, the French fascists and collaborators 'merely' made the Nazis' job easier. If, in 2010, Clegg had not gone into collation there would have been a weak Tory government unable to get it's most vicious pieces of legislation through parliament. We can only speculate how long such a government might have lasted.

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:34 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
Cuts to legal aid may well be a precursor to a more totalitarian or authoritative state, but they aren't specifically fascist. Which was the point of the OP.

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:08 pm
by Emmett Jenner
Complements to you Malco. An interesting read.

What I found most frightening was the thought touched on by some comment in the thread regards what people have forgotten from WWII era. It's true, people never seem to learn... or if they do then it happens very slowly.

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:10 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
You need to be more specific about 'people'.

For example, one of the slowest learners I have ever seen is your own Nargle 'Thirsty' Fagbreak. He has learned nothing at all from the era of the dictators and the destruction they wrought.

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:39 pm
by Emmett Jenner
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:You need to be more specific about 'people'.

For example, one of the slowest learners I have ever seen is your own Nargle 'Thirsty' Fagbreak. He has learned nothing at all from the era of the dictators and the destruction they wrought.
Don't be silly. Do you think I meant any more than just 'people' - wouldn't I have said 'socialists' or something... if that was what I meant.

I remember now I wanted to say something about The Lord of the Flies and society but the words never came to me.

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 12:42 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
Emmett Jenner wrote:
I remember now I wanted to say something about The Lord of the Flies and society but the words never came to me.
Funny you mention that, we've noticed you know...

Look up Dystopian Satires whilst you're at it.

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 2:42 pm
by Big Rob
Emmett Jenner wrote:It's true, people never seem to learn... or if they do then it happens very slowly.
Image

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 2:57 pm
by Emmett Jenner
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
Emmett Jenner wrote:
I remember now I wanted to say something about The Lord of the Flies and society but the words never came to me.
Funny you mention that, we've noticed you know...

Look up Dystopian Satires whilst you're at it.
Stick it Piggy

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 3:25 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
Ooh, silly playground bully wannabee uses playground bully allusion to look like a bit of a twat...

Or in other parlance, get her...

Apart from Lord of the Flies have you eaten any other good books lately?

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 3:26 pm
by Big Rob
Glass houses. Stones.

Re: What Fascism actually is.

Posted: Sat May 19, 2012 3:28 pm
by Malcolm Armsteen
I realise that I'm going way over your littly pointy head, Emblejemble, but you see the irony is just too delicious.

Here's a lad who really and honestly believes that we live in some sort of failed European society and the first book he ever reads is an allegorical novel of a dystopian future in which the bullies take over and force the ones with brains to do the menial work whilst they fuck everything up on the grounds of being crap at everything.

The irony is so sweet that the boys are even led by the survivor of a plane crash.