Discussion of the more serious side of the Mail's agenda
By Fozzy
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Current top of the page headline:
This week the Mail was slated for making the perfectly reasonable point that arson killer Mick Philpott was a product of the benefits system. Today it is George Osborne's turn. Now tell us what YOU think. But, beware, the Left WILL try to hijack the result
It's really quite sad that they feel they have to protect themselves in advance for the distinct likelihood that their poll will go against them.
By Fflaps
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Dacre Bleugh wrote:Surprise, surprise...
Britain does need a debate on welfare, but not in the way the Mail is implying. A debate about why the right feel the need to demonise the poor would be a good start but we won't see that in the Mail any time soon, unless Sonia Poulton is still on the payroll.

Mick Philpott comes across as a textbook psychopath - he would have been the way he is no matter what his background and lifestyle. Another thing the Mail et al seem to forget is that although he didn't work, his wife and mistress both did, and they were claiming the same benefits that millions of other working people do - child benefit, tax credits etc.
By George Tait
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Littlejohn's brain wrote:So what is Collins's solution for Labour on welfare?

He doesn't offer any solutions. The basic thrust of his argument is that the Labour Party cannot win an election if they continue to say nothing much about welfare when public opinion suggests that they ought to. He wants Ed Milliband to 'get up from his sofa' and sing along to the benefit scrounger chorus. He doesn't ask though why the Tories lost the election in 1997 when the economy appeared to be in good shape or why they couldn't win an outright majority in 2010 when the economy was widely reported to be on its knees. Maybe that is a different argument but it is an elephant in the room problem that I think the Tories will never be able to overcome.

Collins has responded to me. He has admitted that he is not responsible for that headline but has not said who was.
By Abernathy
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Well, no doubt the Tories will revisit the "debate" on the welfare state quite a few more times before May 2015. It's part of the "people who want to work hard and get on" "in" group they've invented and seem to want everyone to be in - only qualification being to agree to sign on for shirker-bashing - and vote for.

But Labour don't need to join in. At least not yet, two years out from the election. If and when it does, I'd suggest it picks its own time, and its own terms. And there is a very good case to be made for those terms being that Labour invented the welfare state (including the NHS), one of the most civilising initiatives ever taken by any political movement anywhere, and that it is something to be immensely proud of. It needs to point out, and drive the message home, that the Tories want to get rid of it all, have started but not yet completed the job, and that Labour needs to stop that from happening in a second Tory term.
By sporran
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The comments are absolutely disgusting on that story.

Just shows that the utter nonsense continually coming out of the mouth of Iain Duncan Smith and friends is resonating with people. You have to hope that it's just a minority of the population who happen to be over-represented on the Mail site, because it's depressing to read how many are of the belief that because one psychologically-flawed person committed a hideous crime in order to obtain money from the welfare system, it's reasonable to take those benefits away from millions of others.

I truly hope people like Cloud 9 below are the first ones out on their arse during the next round of redundancies, let's see if they still have the same opinion about the welfare system.
Those children died because of the welfare system. Liberal hand wringing Labour (you couldn't make it up) would have it otherwise. This government has made a start on rolling back the welfare culture but needs to go much further. Good for you Mr Osbourne.

- Cloud 9 , Persepolis, Bonaire, Sint Eustatius and Saba, 05/4/2013 09:42
By new puritan
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The Philpott case has produced a veritable bevy of utterly pisspoor attempts at analysis, and not just in the pages of the Mail. See free-market nutter Ruth Porter, from the IEA:
Ruth Porter ‏@ruthoporter 3 Apr
In all the discussion about welfare policy it seems little attention being given to how emphasis on state undermines bonds within families.
Yeah, if it hadn't been for the state poking its beak in the Philpotts would have been right as rain. I mean, for fuck's sake, people get rewarded very handsomely to come out with this sort of stuff.
By Lord Brett
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I've reached the conclusion with regards to Dacre, Ruth Porter or any other Tory Tea Party nutter commenting on the Philpotts that they don't even acknowledge that a line exists, let alone that they are crossing it.

For fuck's sake, they're now calling him Shameless Mick, like he's a comic television character rather than a psycho responsible for the deaths of six children.
By spoonman
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Littlejohn's brain wrote:72% say yes :cry:

here's a conservative election leaflett

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... ebate.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You'd swear that the Daily M**l is the real victims in all of this and not the six children burned to death by their own scheming father. :x :x
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