Discussion of article from the Mail's columnists and RightMinds contributors
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By AOB
Membership Days Posts
#517412
mr angry manchester wrote:I used to work with a Daily Mail reader and she was appalling. Mean, stingy, gossipy, racist, just as you would expect.

She was also stupid. She would sometimes give vent to one of her Daily Mail prejudices and I would reply by saying, quite loudly, "ITS AN OUTRAGE!!!!" in the style of an outraged Mail reader.

She would then nod in agreement, thinking I was actually outraged, too thick to realise that I was taking the piss.
This is too often the case, sadly. These people helped the toddler into power over the there. The lack of critical thinking skills has enabled Brexit, and even worse Trump.
 
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Posts
#517585
youngian wrote:
Take its drearily predictable choice of targets: Donald Trump, Jacob Rees-Mogg, David Davis, Boris Johnson, the Daily Mail


Just as every US TV chat show host and comedy presenter has a predictable choice every night who writes the scripts for them. And then you realise what an easy ride Brexit is getting on UK TV compared to Trump in the US. Jeremy Kyle standing in for Piers Morgan is the only interviewer I've seen give it both barrels on what a fuck up Brexit is and was from the outset. This is not good enough.
As was said when Ed Vaizey complained about the lack of right wing plays, the problem isn't that there's a resistance to right wing comedy, but that there's not much of it about. The comedy scene is predominantly urban, and within that London-centric. That by its nature is going to be skewed towards the edgy 'lefty' stuff Utley and Dacre hate. And to be honest I don't think they'd want to see lazy "3 poofs walk into a pub and the barmaid's got massive tits" working mens club stuff either. As ever, they know what they don't like but don't know what to replace it with.

Most of the shows he lambasts are late night BBC2 offerings. He makes an 'honourable exception' for HIGNFY, the one that's shown at primetime on BBC1 and which has run for years, to the point that any satirical bite it had has faded. And as we've discussed on here enough times, it's at best neutral, at worst small c conservative.
 
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Posts
#521254
In other words, I'm a selfish bastard and proud of it. Here's some bullshit to justify my stance.
 
By Arnold
Membership Days Posts
#521255
Dunno mate, Sussex, United Kingdom, about 2 hours ago
Someone was having a brain transplant and was offered one for £100 and another for £2,000. "Why the difference in price?", he asked. "Well, the second one belonged to a Daily Mail journalist so has never been used."
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By MisterMuncher
Membership Days Posts
#521322
It's Mailism in microcosm. I'd only give something away for free if I definitely don't have any possible need for it and it's absolutely knackered.

Imagine taking pride in significantly shortening your life for such pettiness.
 
By Boiler
Posts
#521392
It seems to be part of the toolkit of cuntery that builds the Mail mindset: "I'm only doing this thing because it'll wind up 'Lefties'/it's negative".
 
By Safe_Timber_Man
Membership Days Posts
#526763
The man is obsessed with age/generational differences. I also get the impression from his many columns that his sons think he's a right dick.

As a 64-year-old father of four — and a Brexiteer to boot — I feel I’ve been on the receiving end of more than my fair share of such demonisation from my own Remainer sons. So on behalf of my fellow baby boomers, I’d like to take this opportunity of entering a plea of Not Guilty to every charge on their generation’s indictment.

I am also tempted to lay counter-charges against my sons’ own age group, which strikes me in general as being more pampered and selfish than mine, less capable of independent thought — and, yes, less to be trusted with the vote.
So why don’t the young lift their eyes from their smartphones, pull those earphones from their lugs, stop whingeing — and start thinking before they vote?



TOM UTLEY: To the young (like my sons) who think we baby boomers are pampered, selfish, racists, here's why you're all SO wrong
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... wrong.html


Are you a baby boomer like me, born in the post-war breeding period from 1946 to 1964? If so, you stand accused by increasing numbers of millennials of being a pampered, selfish racist, incapable of coherent thought and not to be trusted with the vote.

Don’t take my word for it. This is the finding of charity workers concerned with the welfare of the elderly.

At a conference in London this week, they warned that, since last year’s EU referendum, there has been an upsurge of ageist prejudice among the resentful young, who feel hard done by and betrayed by their parents’ generation.

Said Kate Jopling, the former head of public affairs at Help the Aged: ‘[After Brexit], there was a casual use of demonising and divisive language, the bandying around of stereotypes about who older people are, about their economic circumstances, their motivations and even their ability to form rational judgments.

‘Baby boomers used to be talked about as the generation that would change everything. Now it is almost a term of abuse.’

As a 64-year-old father of four — and a Brexiteer to boot — I feel I’ve been on the receiving end of more than my fair share of such demonisation from my own Remainer sons. So on behalf of my fellow baby boomers, I’d like to take this opportunity of entering a plea of Not Guilty to every charge on their generation’s indictment.

I am also tempted to lay counter-charges against my sons’ own age group, which strikes me in general as being more pampered and selfish than mine, less capable of independent thought — and, yes, less to be trusted with the vote.

According to speakers at The Future of Ageing Conference, millennials’ resentment of baby boomers focuses on three main areas: tuition fees, housing and, of course, the Brexit result. The idea is that we had everything handed to us on a plate — free higher education and affordable homes — and are too selfish to care a damn about how much they suffer.

To rub salt into the wounds of the young, surveys suggest some 60 per cent of us 50 to 65-year-olds voted Leave, while almost three-quarters of 18 to 24-year-olds voted Remain. Thus, we stand accused of wilfully ‘stealing the future’ from our children, who ascribe our decision purely to stupidity and racism. Many add that since they are the ones who will have to live with the long-term consequences of Brexit, they alone should have decided the matter.

Let’s take tuition fees first. Before I go any further, I must admit that I was one of the lucky ten per cent or so of baby boomers who went to university in the Sixties and Seventies, with our tuition fees paid by the state and — in many cases, including mine — a generous maintenance allowance thrown in by our local councils. Indeed, all my life I’ve felt grateful to the miners, welders, street-cleaners and check-out girls who made my higher education possible through their taxes (though, in my defence, I must say I’ve repaid the state many times over since).

But the point is that 90 per cent of my generation didn’t share my good fortune. For when universities depended overwhelmingly on the Treasury for their running costs, places were restricted. Most of my fellow students came from comfortable, middle-class backgrounds, while a hugely disproportionate number of them had been privately educated, as I was.

Contrast this with the position today, after the introduction of tuition fees made possible a rapid expansion in the number of places available, with the proportion of school-leavers going into higher education more than trebling since my day.

What’s more, the student loan system — under which repayments begin only when graduates earn a decent income, and debts are written off after 30 years — has had a dramatic effect on the social composition of the university population.

Though the Left warned it would deter poorer teenagers from applying for places, the opposite has proved true. Indeed, a report this week from the Centre for Global Higher Education finds the proportion of students from families in the bottom fifth of income groups has doubled since fees were introduced in 1998.

Are resentful young graduates really saying the system was fairer all those decades ago, when universities had to compete for funding with every other Whitehall department — forcing them to turn 90 per cent of baby boomers away?

Or do they simply believe in Jeremy Corbyn’s magic money tree, whose fruits will somehow fund free higher education for all — on top of free everything else — while relieving them of all their debts? If so, who’s being stupid and selfish now?

On housing, I have to admit our young antagonists are on firmer ground. Undeniably, it is much harder for them to get on to the ladder after years of mass immigration and marital breakdown, in which supply has failed to keep up with demand.

But to the charge that ‘I’m all right Jack’ baby boomers don’t care about this crisis, I plead an emphatic Not Guilty. We feel the pain acutely — not least, those of us stuck with twentysomething offspring on the premises, treating us to lectures on our selfishness as they tuck into free grub earned by the sweat of our brows.

Indeed, politicians need have no fear of losing older voters’ support if they embark on a mass programme of house building. For most of us, it can’t come too soon.

Then there’s Brexit, the biggest bone of contention of them all. Somehow or other, three-quarters of millennials appear to have run away with the idea that the EU is an earthly paradise of free trade, prosperity, democracy and brotherly love. In their view, it seems, anyone who thinks otherwise must be a thick, pig-headed racist.

I ask them only to consider the facts. How can they think Brussels a guarantor of prosperity, when they see the rampant youth unemployment imposed on southern Europe by the eurocrats’ politically inspired folly of the one-size-fits-all euro?

How can they think the EU stands for free trade and friendship between nations, when, in fact, it erects savage tariff barriers against some of the world’s poorest countries, preventing them from developing in order to protect its own inefficient farmers and industries?

Take African cocoa. The EU is happy to exempt imports of raw beans from all charges. But in a relic of colonialism, it imposes import tariffs of 30-60 per cent on finished products such as chocolate bars to protect European processors. No wonder the shops are full of overpriced Belgian chocolates, while Africa suffers.

There’s nothing touchy-feely about this aspect of the monstrous, protectionist cartel that is Brussels.

Yet despite its efforts to protect its own, the EU’s share of world trade has shrunk every year since we joined. Indeed, it’s bewildering how milliennials can think Brussels represents the future.
As for democracy, it doesn’t get a look-in, as unelected officials blithely impose laws on 500 million citizens who have no power to get rid of them. No wonder neo-Nazis and Communists are rearing their ugly heads again, on a continent falling apart at the seams.

Meanwhile what, pray, is racist about demanding an end to the free movement of unskilled, mostly white Europeans, so that we can welcome the skilled workers we need from the rest of the world?
No, you millennials. We baby boomers voted Brexit because we have your interests at heart, to save you from sinking aboard the bureaucratic Titanic.

As for the claim that we were pampered in our youth, millennials are the healthiest, most widely travelled generation in history — with more holidays, clothes, sources of entertainment and an infinitely more exciting diet than most of us could dream of, in the days when roast chicken was the height of luxury.

So why don’t the young lift their eyes from their smartphones, pull those earphones from their lugs, stop whingeing — and start thinking before they vote?

Cujy1963, Hampshire, United Kingdom, 10 hours ago
Most 18 -30 year olds are in a me,me and more me generation . I just got a thank you letter from a just married 30 year old thanking me for money for their wedding gift put towards a " holiday, Australia , Barley , new zeland " and some other place. They have already had lots of luxury holidays to far flung places and their new car is a Mercedes, but they don't have a deposit for a property....wonder why ??
+4582 -476
FortescuSmythesly, Hull, United Kingdom, 10 hours ago
Can¿t fault one word of the epilogue. Only to add it was our generation who pampered these millenials. Making them believe it was their right to have access to all and sundry without having to lift a finger to earn it. They are now more than welcome to the real world where you have to work hard to get what you want. Tough love is all they need and plenty of it. Close all the banks of mum and dad then see how they change their feeble minds !!
+3395 -223
gillgill, manchester, United Kingdom, 10 hours ago
Generalising of course ........ but spoilt brats, with zero common sense & distorted values who'd have been much improved by the hardship and discipline boomers received from their parents in their upbringing.
+2837 -189
Lady of the Lake, Avalon, Antarctica, 4 hours ago
"So why don't the young.........start thinking before they vote?" The answer quite simply is that original thought is no longer acceptable. They have to go with what they are told. They are being or have been brainwashed into thinking that Corbyn and the EU are the answer to all our ills. They have never known life outside the EU and do not realise how we are constrained by EU red tape.
+911 -63
tudor, liverpool, 4 hours ago
I concur with Tom wholeheartedy. We have raised a generation who have everything we would have liked when younger but couldn¿t afford. We are of the ilk of make do and mend whilst they are of the throw away society.
+651 -27
 
By Boiler
Posts
#526767
Here's the bit I don't get about 'Baby Boomers' bemoaning their brattish, selfish offspring.

Who raised them to be like that? The generation who said "I want my kids to have everything I didn't"?? The one that stares you bleary-eyed in the bathroom mirror first thing in the morning, that's who.

This is of your own making - so own it.
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#526943
A total misinterpretation of EU agricultural trade as anyone who has been in a supermarket will tell you. It balances food security, culture, domestic production with preferential trade and tariff-free quotas. Mainly former colonies Europeans owe a debt to and have already stated Brexit is one big pain in the arse for them. If 'us Brexiters care deeply about African farmers like Bono' is the best Utley can come up with in mitigation no wonder his kids think he is a self-centred tosser.
By karlt
Membership Days
#527213
Every generation thinks the younger generation are clueless, pampered, selfish etc. The Four Yorkshiremen sketch wouldn't have worked otherwise. To a degree all children are pampered because if you don't actually do things for them that adults have to do for themselves they die - things like cooking, earning a living, registering with doctors.

And up to now it's not hard to see that each generation was able to look back on things and say "well, we 'ad it tough!" My grandparents' generation (born 1910-1920) had leaving school at 14, mills, grinding poverty, outdoor privies. My parents' (1940s) had rationing, no tellies, no cars. My generation still had some old school school teacher types with canes they were allowed to use (albeit our parents would tell us how it wasn't like in their day etc. etc.) And each generation was indeed richer, in real terms, than the previous.

That last has changed. Thanks to changes in the employment sphere and insane accommodation costs, renting or buying, the new generation is not experiencing increased prosperity. It's easy to look at smartphones and 72" tellies and computers, but everyone - including the boomers doing the moaning - takes them for granted now. The millenials are looking at their parents house, bought for an ordinary income in the 80s and now worth half a million, and seeing that they have no chance of ever doing what their parents and grandparents did, university degree or no university degree. And whilst Utley can go on about how wonderful it is that 50% of school leavers can go rather than 10%, he's forgetting that in his day having BA or BSc after your name marked you out in the job market. Now it won't, because so many people have got one. I noted some twenty years ago that jobs that used to want a couple of A Levels were now being aimed at graduates.

Everyone wants everything handed to them on a plate. It's human nature. Every generation discovers reluctantly that adulthood isn't just being able to get home and go to bed when you like and drink in pubs. And they all get to 50 and start banging on about the "youth of today". It's like employers complaining about literacy and numeracy standards in school leavers. They forget that people continue to learn throughout their adult lives, and when they were 17 they couldn't produce written material of the quality they can now. I know I couldn't. It was even worse then that it is now ;)
 
By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Posts
#527330
karlt wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:21 am
Every generation thinks the younger generation are clueless, pampered, selfish etc. The Four Yorkshiremen sketch wouldn't have worked otherwise. To a degree all children are pampered because if you don't actually do things for them that adults have to do for themselves they die - things like cooking, earning a living, registering with doctors.

And up to now it's not hard to see that each generation was able to look back on things and say "well, we 'ad it tough!" My grandparents' generation (born 1910-1920) had leaving school at 14, mills, grinding poverty, outdoor privies. My parents' (1940s) had rationing, no tellies, no cars. My generation still had some old school school teacher types with canes they were allowed to use (albeit our parents would tell us how it wasn't like in their day etc. etc.) And each generation was indeed richer, in real terms, than the previous.

That last has changed. Thanks to changes in the employment sphere and insane accommodation costs, renting or buying, the new generation is not experiencing increased prosperity. It's easy to look at smartphones and 72" tellies and computers, but everyone - including the boomers doing the moaning - takes them for granted now. The millenials are looking at their parents house, bought for an ordinary income in the 80s and now worth half a million, and seeing that they have no chance of ever doing what their parents and grandparents did, university degree or no university degree. And whilst Utley can go on about how wonderful it is that 50% of school leavers can go rather than 10%, he's forgetting that in his day having BA or BSc after your name marked you out in the job market. Now it won't, because so many people have got one. I noted some twenty years ago that jobs that used to want a couple of A Levels were now being aimed at graduates.

Everyone wants everything handed to them on a plate. It's human nature. Every generation discovers reluctantly that adulthood isn't just being able to get home and go to bed when you like and drink in pubs. And they all get to 50 and start banging on about the "youth of today". It's like employers complaining about literacy and numeracy standards in school leavers. They forget that people continue to learn throughout their adult lives, and when they were 17 they couldn't produce written material of the quality they can now. I know I couldn't. It was even worse then that it is now ;)
And let's not forget Avocados.
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