Discussion of article from the Mail's columnists and RightMinds contributors
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By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Posts
#380757
I think, in a nutshell, "Mad Mel" is probably OK as a nickname because she's frequently very angry and does/says daft things. "Mentally ill Mel" wouldn't be because that's not about what she behaves like, that's specifically saying you think she has an unaddressed medical issue.

Plus of course, it's a pretty shit nickname.
 
By ezinra
Membership Days Posts
#380762
Safe_Timber_Man wrote:What about the use of the term "lunatic fringe" for example? Lunatic historically refereed to mental illness. Why is that's acceptable to use? It's because it's evolved, I guess. Just like other words, such as "mad".
It isn't acceptable. The words haven't evolved; you'll still hear the psych ward referred to as the loony bin or the madhouse. It's as insensitive as saying "My work schedule is gay" (which I heard the other week).

Listen to what disability campaigners say, and stick up for them. Language is powerful. If the average Mail reader thinks it's PC gorn mad to eliminate words such as mad, loony, lame, nutter, bonkers, cretin, gimp, headbanger, etc, from your metaphorical vocabulary, then fuck 'em. Whose side are you on?
 
By Safe_Timber_Man
Membership Days Posts
#380764
ezinra wrote:
Safe_Timber_Man wrote:What about the use of the term "lunatic fringe" for example? Lunatic historically refereed to mental illness. Why is that's acceptable to use? It's because it's evolved, I guess. Just like other words, such as "mad".
It isn't acceptable. The words haven't evolved; you'll still hear the psych ward referred to as the loony bin or the madhouse. It's as insensitive as saying "My work schedule is gay" (which I heard the other week).

Listen to what disability campaigners say, and stick up for them. Language is powerful. If the average Mail reader thinks it's PC gorn mad to eliminate words such as mad, loony, lame, nutter, bonkers, cretin, gimp, headbanger, etc, from your metaphorical vocabulary, then fuck 'em. Whose side are you on?

Interesting. So this:
Kreuzberger wrote:Well, quite.It is absurd to conflate the rambling lunatic fringe of anything
and this:
Kreuzberger wrote:A school retains Shillings? Fuck me, the world has gone stark, staring mad.

Would be staggeringly hypocritical?
 
By Daley Mayle
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#380765
Kreuzberger wrote:
Daley Mayle wrote:There's sometimes too much navel gazing on here.
As a mod, you might like to expand on this. Is this a discussion forum or not?
It certainly is. As Malc said Mel's particular soubriquet has many nuances, it could refer to a mental illness or something that's not sensible or foolish. My subjective view is 'mad' as applied to her refers to her output rather than her having a mental condition. There's also the alliterative angle, if her name was, say, Zelda then she might be called Zany Zelda.
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#380766
Or if she was Caroline she could be Crackers Caroline.

Or if she were Bertha, Bonkers Bertha.

Or Raving Rhonda, if she was Rhonda.

Or .........

Best stop now.
 
By Kreuzberger
Membership Days Posts
#380771
Deary me, here we go again.

Context is everything. Generalisations made within the company of largely like-minded individuals are a world apart from very public, pointed, personal abuse. Some of those entre nous comments and throw-away lines might be a little raw on occasion and could perhaps open one to a charge of hypocrisy (should an antagonist try hard enough), but others are entirely legitimate.

For instance; if a school runs out and hires the most blisteringly expensive libel lawyers in the land, one might sense a strand of corporate paranoia.

But, that is another pointless excursion up Tangent Boulevard. This is more an issue of whether a sustained barrage of mental health related barbs is a: acceptable in public debate and b: does anything to move that debate onwards. Alliterations, they might be and show me the person who hasn't once resorted to this form of linguistic short-hand but that doesn't diminish the fact that they are lazy at best, and can often cause wider offence even when none was meant. I'm thinking of Cameron, Balls and the Tourettes incident here.

Just because name-calling is a favoured tactic of the common or garden mailite, that hardly gives us the right to follow suit.
 
By Kreuzberger
Membership Days Posts
#380773
crabcakes_windermere wrote:I think, in a nutshell, "Mad Mel" is probably OK as a nickname because she's frequently very angry and does/says daft things. "Mentally ill Mel" wouldn't be because that's not about what she behaves like, that's specifically saying you think she has an unaddressed medical issue.

Plus of course, it's a pretty shit nickname.
Mad as in "angry"? Whilst I'm sure someone can (and will) dig up a youtube clip of her being incandescent with rage, I can't think of an instance where she has been anything other than articulate and measured, albeit often rather forthright. That is one of the reasons she has such a wide constituency and why she should be challenged on her views.
 
By Big Arnold
Membership Days Posts
#380785
Kreuzberger wrote:Deary me, here we go again.

Context is everything.
Exactly. My vet once referred to one of my cats as mental. I took no offence as I knew he was referring to the extreme violence she used when frightened. Even when sedated prior to anaesthesia.
By Big Rob
#380795
For terms like mad not to be insulting to the mentally ill there has to be a difference in meaning between when it is applied to the likes of Mel and the mentally ill.

Nothing to do with context, unless the meaning changes in that context.

If the meaning in both senses mean irrational/delusional/insane then it is derogatory to the mentally ill.
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