Discussion of article from the Mail's columnists and RightMinds contributors
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By Agnes
Membership Days Posts
#394292
Abernathy wrote:I don't think you can slug quinoa either, Ags - it's not liquid.
You put it through the food processor and make it into a smoothie, do I have to tell you everything? I'm surprised that such a devout Socialist as yourself is so evidently not down with the quinoa-ingesting kids.
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Posts
#394457
It's possible to do evil things through a lack of compassion and an overload of arrogance, but to actually be evil is a step too far.

I still don't think IDS is evil, and he's one of the nastiest Tories around. Callous, stupid, vain, petty, bitter, arrogant, egotistical, greedy, mean, blinkered, cowardly and easily led (to name but a few of his endearing traits), sure. But evil? No.

It never pays to dehumanise your opponents (particularly when they frequently do that to others as a means to an end) or give them the excuse that it's their nature to do what they do. The tories are wrong, and work to a set of values that are misguided, not evil. It may take more effort to explain why someone is wrong than just saying they're evil, but once you have your reasoning watertight it's a position that cannot be dismissed. Calling someone evil, however, is easily dismissed by them and others.
Last edited by crabcakes_windermere on Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#394459
crabcakes_windermere wrote: It never pays to dehumanise your opponents (particularly when they frequently do that to others as a means to an end) or give them the excuse that it's their nature to do what they do. The tories are wrong, and work to a set of values that are misguided, not evil. It may take more effort to explain why someone is wrong than just saying they're evil, but once you have watertight it's a position that cannot be dismissed. Calling someone evil, however, is easily dismissed by them and others.
And blaming individuals in power for being evil as the root cause of social injustice is a very conservative point of view as well.

I like trying the Realist view of Hitler on Tories and Kippers as well, he may have been a bit more ruthless than Daladier, Chamberlain or Churchill but was essentially just another politician in the European imperialist state system following everyone elses logic of colonial expansion as a foreign policy objective. The cause of majors wars being down to evil foreign mad men is a much more settling concept for them.
Last edited by youngian on Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Posts
#394462
Indeed. Talking of Kippers, going for the cheap shot is music to Farage's ears. He then gets to play his ordinary bloke victim card.

Skewer him on facts and figures where he can't spin it, and it's been shown he falls apart and goes into flap mode. It's just a shame neither the Tories nor regrettably Labour too do this more often and more publicly. Farage lies out of his arse left, right and centre day in and day out, going on about being the rebel fighting for the little man while he trousers huge sums of money for doing next to fuck-all for anyone, and when he does get off his backside it's usually for his business mates and/or for self interest. Why isn't he being ripped to shreds for it?

Call him evil though, or racist, and it's another argument lost because he'll just blah blah it away.
 
By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Posts
#394512
crabcakes_windermere wrote:Indeed. Talking of Kippers, going for the cheap shot is music to Farage's ears. He then gets to play his ordinary bloke victim card.

Skewer him on facts and figures where he can't spin it, and it's been shown he falls apart and goes into flap mode. It's just a shame neither the Tories nor regrettably Labour too do this more often and more publicly. Farage lies out of his arse left, right and centre day in and day out, going on about being the rebel fighting for the little man while he trousers huge sums of money for doing next to fuck-all for anyone, and when he does get off his backside it's usually for his business mates and/or for self interest. Why isn't he being ripped to shreds for it?

Call him evil though, or racist, and it's another argument lost because he'll just blah blah it away.
You've essentially described the celebrity persona transplanted into a political context.

It's an excellent summary of where he comes from (shallow, content free, persona based) and explains the audience he most appeals to.
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#394524
It's the rightness of naturally assumed superiority. Don't try to correct me because hey, I'm right. And in the real world we don't need your so-called facts and figures, matey boy.

It's not just the leadership - the rank and file remember the days (nostalgia filters applying) when to be a White English bloke meant a natural advantage over anyone black, female, foreign, gay or a combination thereof. When they had it easier because people in those groups either couldn't, or wouldn't dare, challenge the status quo.
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Posts
#394639
Back on topic, Heffer is very obviously a painfully old-school Tory. He's just right because he is, even when he's wrong. Do as he says, not as he does, and don't question it.

I read a fabulous review of one of his dreadful grammar books recently, particularly brilliant for this bit:
I know that a few tender souls will feel that there must be something good in everything, and that I really shouldn't be so negative. So I will say one favorable thing about the book. Holding it in my hands did not make my skin erupt in a horrible disfiguring disease. There. I'm done. Don't tell me I don't know how to be fair and balanced.
http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2780" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
By The Red Arrow
Membership Days Posts
#415991
He's turned up at The New Statesman, again.

Why David Cameron may not have long to savour his success

Cameron must manage a majority even smaller than John Major’s while delivering an inevitably divisive referendum.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/20 ... is-success" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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