Discussion of article from the Mail's columnists and RightMinds contributors
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By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#558791
Partition is an uncomfortable subject, because its very nature was a massive fuck you and goodbye by the British. Something glossed over in a lot of films and books on the subject.

I'm enjoying the new series. Strong characters, gets away from stereotypes, interesting motivations.
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#558836
Andy McDandy wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:32 pm
Partition is an uncomfortable subject, because its very nature was a massive fuck you and goodbye by the British. Something glossed over in a lot of films and books on the subject.

I'm enjoying the new series. Strong characters, gets away from stereotypes, interesting motivations.
Not to mention it was being pushed for by Jinnah.
 
By Safe_Timber_Man
Membership Days Posts
#560061






SARAH VINE: She fired my husband yet even I salute May’s true grit that’s won the deal to deliver Brexit

On more than one occasion over the past few months I must confess I have thought to myself: if I had known then what a nightmare it was going to be, I might never have done it.

Like 17 million other Britons — many of them readers of this newspaper — I voted in 2016 to leave the European Union. Don’t get me wrong, I haven’t changed my mind about leaving. If anything, the intransigence of Brussels in negotiating Britain’s exit deal has only strengthened my view that being out is the only place to be.

As for the relentless campaign on behalf of influential Establishment figures in favour of Remain to overturn the democratic wish of the British people at any cost, I have nothing but contempt for their condescending arrogance and grotesque sense of entitlement. We had a democratic vote — it should be respected.

It is because of the hugely powerful vested interests of the above that this entire process has been so impossibly fraught. Add in an opportunistic Labour Party that cares about nothing but gaining power, a far from impartial civil service (let’s tell the truth and shame the Devil for once, shall we?) and a hard Brexit contingent who just want to crash out at all costs — and it’s little wonder we’ve ended up with an imperfect deal.

In fact, it’s a miracle we have any kind of work-able deal on the table at all. And if we do, it’s not despite Mrs May, as so many have argued and will no doubt continue to argue. It’s because of her.

I’ll be honest, Theresa May was not my first choice as successor to David Cameron. She wasn’t even my second, third, fourth or fifth. And when she got the job, she didn’t exactly go out of her way to make friends.

Not only did she fire my husband from his post as Lord Chancellor, she fired anyone associated with the Cameron regime, which was both a tad ruthless and very short-sighted, since many of them were actually rather good at their jobs and might have been quite useful to her.

Her actions in some ways, though, were understandable: every new leader wants to build a loyal team, and she needed to impose her authority.

What happened next, however, was straightforwardly misjudged. First, she triggered Article 50 — thus initiating the formal notice period for securing a deal — before any serious due diligence had been done by government departments on what a good deal would look like. It meant Britain entered the negotiations ultimately disadvantaged.

And she called that disastrous General Election, which lost her the Government’s already slim majority — and elevated Jeremy Corbyn to cult status. Neither was a good idea, and both have contributed significantly to the Government’s woes.

But we are where we are. Politics, as a wise man once said, is nothing if not the art of the impossible. And what more impossible task could there be than extricating Britain from a European Union whose very existence depends on keeping us in.

The truth is, even the most experienced politician would have struggled against the might of Brussels. Cameron, of course, understood that, which is why he campaigned so hard for Remain in the first place, and why, ultimately, he resigned when Leave won.

May chose to fight — and has borne the brunt of Brussels’ fury because of it. Did she have any inkling of how vicious it was going to be? Who knows. But the fact remains that she has put up with their jibes, their tricks, their lies and their arrogance, all the while battling incessant opposition at home.

And I, for one, cannot help but admire that in her. Perhaps it’s just that, woman to woman, I recognise only too well the feeling of being a lone female in the face of unrelenting male condescension. The fact that she has not given up, not run away, but just kept on going. Because, ultimately, there is no other choice and someone has to do it. That is something all women understand.

And at the end of the day, she has brought back a deal that, while not perfect, nevertheless allows us to control migration, to stem the flow of new EU legislation — and exonerates Britain from future membership contributions. And even if you doubt that or don’t care, the fact remains that all the alternatives are either softer, unworkable — or no deal at all.

Most people in her shoes would consider this a significant victory. But for a woman such as May — a 62-year-old suffering from a serious medical condition that would sap even the youngest and fittest person’s energy — it represents a truly superhuman achievement.

That infamous electoral slogan of hers — strong and stable — that once drew so much mockery now finally starts to ring true.

Today, she stands as a beacon of calm sanity in a sea of hysterical, egomaniacal voices.

Her focus, perseverance and dogged determination have, with this voter at least, finally earned her the respect she tried — and failed — to impose by force at the start of her premiership.

Even if she now fails to get this deal through Parliament — as seems probable when the House votes on it on December 11 — she will have shown the country what she is made of. What she truly is. A leader who, at no small personal and political cost, has done everything within the constraints placed upon her to guide the nation through one of the most testing times in its history.

And if I had not begun to feel this already over the course of the past few weeks, as the voices of those determined to exploit the weakness of the deal to further their own leadership agendas have become increasingly shrill, Monday’s debate in the Commons was a turning point.

The chamber of the House of Commons is, by necessity, a brutal environment. But on Monday, the atmosphere tipped from civilised debate into the political equivalent of a bare-knuckle fight.

Aided and abetted by Speaker Bercow — he of the ‘Boll***s to Brexit’ car sticker — who all but strung her up from the ceiling of the chamber as a punchbag, the gloves were truly off, no holds barred. They set upon her, each one hoping to deal that fatal blow that would bring her down.

And yet they couldn’t. Time and again she fought back, responding each time with renewed vigour, even as the debate wore on and the chamber began to empty.

She was up on her feet and on her brief, battling with every ounce of her strength, batting away questions, from the facetious to the fiendish, with a fierce energy I would not have credited her with.

I saw then in May something I have not seen in a politician for a long while: true grit. Someone prepared to stand up for something she believes in. To put her neck on the line for a deal that, whatever its flaws, gets Britain out of the European Union as per the wishes of the British people and, perhaps just as importantly, will allow the country to move forward out of this interminable, divisive and toxic political limbo. We will have a Brexit at last.

Mrs May still has a long road ahead of her. It will take every ounce of determination and strength to survive the next few weeks.

I have no idea how she is going to do it, but I really hope she does. Because one thing is certain: she will not walk away from her duty, however unrewarding it may be, however stark the choices she faces. And that is exactly the kind of Prime Minister this country not only needs, but also deserves.





The only people in the world who liked this vile woman were Mail readers and that's only because she told them what they want to hear. Now with the slight shift in stance at the Mail even they don't like her anymore.

So much so that they've had to moderate the comments and only let 3 get through:

PR Resistant, Edinburgh, United Kingdom, 10 hours ago
And so it begins. That's awfully nice of you dear but the majority of the voting public voted to leave the EU. This deal is not fit for purpose, like the PM.
+1550 -296
Disillusioned, London, 11 hours ago
History will remember May in the same breath as Chamberlain and Blair. Brexit means Brexit and no deal is better than a bad deal. The contempt shown for the general public is breath taking.
+1485 -252
funfzigschilling, battenberg, United States Minor Outlying Islands, 11 hours ago
we love tezza, we love tezza, we love tezza, oh yes we do
+191 -1025
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#560062
1. Politics is the art of the possible.

2. Fired everyone associated with Cameron? Hammond got a promotion, Hunt stayed on, it was Osborne and a handful like Ed Vaizey who went. And your husband might have been junked as LC but he got another ministry to fuck up.
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#560073
Even if she now fails to get this deal through Parliament — as seems probable when the House votes on it on December 11 — she will have shown the country what she is made of. What she truly is.

A leader with so little authority she dolls out knighthoods are still gets told to fuck off

And a gutless xenophobe who can't look her victims in the eye
 
By Big Arnold
Membership Days Posts
#560790
SARAH VINE: The NHS saved both my babies, now it's my turn to help them
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... -them.html

What about the time your husband broke a bone in his foot one Sunday a few years ago? Did you take him to A&E with X-ray facilities 24/7? No. You took him to somewhere without them, and tried to make political capital out of your mistake.
 
By Big Arnold
Membership Days Posts
#561458
SARAH VINE: The Chelsea fan accused of calling Raheem Sterling a black c*** has shown my son the ugly face of the game he adores
Mr Wing lives in a £500,000 house and (it has been reported *) used to work for BT. He is — or was until it was revoked — a season ticket holder. And those don't come cheap at Chelsea
* By the Mail. Every time it values his house.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... ack-c.html
 
By Big Arnold
Membership Days Posts
#562339
My son tripped over the tree, crashed through the patio window and left my house looking like a blood-splattered Tarantino movie: SARAH VINE on how she learned what REALLY matters at Christmas
How old were the windows FFS? That isn't possible for any windows sold for a very long time.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... stmas.html
 
By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Posts
#562344
Knowing the author they may have been "period artisan" windows form the I saw you coming shop.
Big Arnold wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 9:23 am
My son tripped over the tree, crashed through the patio window and left my house looking like a blood-splattered Tarantino movie: SARAH VINE on how she learned what REALLY matters at Christmas
How old were the windows FFS? That isn't possible for any windows sold for a very long time.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... stmas.html
 
By Safe_Timber_Man
Membership Days Posts
#563501
SARAH VINE: Why I now fear another MP could be killed in our intensely polarised society

There was something horribly predictable about the shameful scenes outside Parliament, in which a group of men drowned out MP Anna Soubry with taunts of ‘liar’, ‘traitor’ and even ‘Nazi’ during a TV interview.

They then harassed her all the way back to the Palace of Westminster, keeping up the barrage of insults while crowding her with intimidating body language.

Questions have rightly been raised about whether the police should have intervened rather than let the group pursue its victim. But there’s something far more worrying going on, something that reaches deeper into our culture and poses a greater threat to society than a few inept cops.

It is a fundamental shift in the norms of civil behaviour, a sense that a line has been crossed.

It was like seeing a Twitter hate mob leap out of a computer screen in front of our eyes. Certainly, their behaviour mirrored the unbridled vitriol often displayed on Twitter.

But this was worse. These were men fuelled not only by fanatical self-belief, but by the notion that Soubry — a staunch Remainer —was not deserving of any kind of respect as a human being. Such was their fury that in their eyes she had become, as the Nazis used to say, untermensch — subhuman, inferior — and therefore a legitimate target.

That is what makes this kind of behaviour — on the rise across the board, from anarchists targeting Jacob Rees-Mogg’s children, to the intimidation of journalists such as the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg by the hard Left — so deeply terrifying. The fact that it’s so open, so brazen.

Those men hurling abuse at Soubry genuinely don’t think they are doing anything wrong.

It’s when you see that look on someone’s face, when you realise that in their eyes you are a human piñata to be beaten with a stick until the insides spill out. It’s when you realise nothing you could say, no logical argument, no compromise could ever make them see you otherwise — that’s when you feel most hopeless.

I know on the occasions when a similar thing has happened to me (I’m not an MP but I am married to a Conservative and I write for the Daily Mail, which in some people’s minds is just as bad) it has shaken me to the core.

I’m lucky, though. Neither I nor my family have been in any real danger, or at least I’ve never felt we were — unlike the MP Jo Cox, murdered in her constituency by a far-Right fantasist just days before the Referendum vote.

Her death profoundly shocked us all, and it is no less a tragedy almost three years on. But if a similar thing were to happen again, would we be as surprised?

I fear not. For this is the reality of politics in Britain today. The political landscape has become so intensely polarised it’s hard to see how normal service can ever be resumed. And it’s not just the fanatics of Leave vs Remain; it’s the way the opposing Left and Right see each other, not in terms of differences of policy or opinion, but as good vs evil.

Nor is it just at the margins, either. Shadow Chancellor John McDonnell famously said last year that he wants ‘a situation where no Tory MP…can travel anywhere in the country, can show their face anywhere without being challenged by direct action’. Well, it seems he got his wish.

Where will this growing hysteria lead? To a hollowing out of democracy, in which the only people who can survive in politics are the brutes and the boors, the ones who can stomach the abuse. The thinkers, dreamers, gentler, more vulnerable souls, will all be hounded out.

And thus the electorate will be represented only by those with the skin of a rhino and the emotional sensitivity of a grizzly bear.

Of course MPs have a duty to engage with voters. But what they cannot be expected to do is endure a level of abuse that, in any other context, would be deemed wholly unacceptable.

Freedom of speech is a right that should not be abused in the name of prejudice and hatred.




The war against meat consumption continues
:roll:

Vegans, chew on this!

The war against meat consumption continues: vegan dog food is the latest thing, apparently. I’m sure it is theoretically possible for a dog to have a healthy vegan diet. But if vegans are, as they claim, so preoccupied with the welfare of animals, here’s a question for you: what are the ethics of imposing human moral and cultural choices on animals?

My three dogs have never, to my knowledge, expressed any misgivings about the contents of their tin of Chappie, and when one of them happens on some rotting animal carcass in the park, I don’t, for example, hear Snowy (the eldest) lecturing Monkee (the puppy) about the rights and wrongs of eating leftover KFC; instead he just growls at him and claims it for his own.

Fact is, nature is red in tooth and claw — and no amount of anthropomorphic wishful thinking on behalf of vegans is ever going to change that.

Continuing on the subject of vegans (it is, after all, ‘Veganuary’), one of the main arguments deployed by plant evangelists against the farming of livestock is the amount of methane that cows produce, and how it is contributing to global warming. I am willing to concede that cows do indeed produce a lot of gas; but then again, so do pulse-eating humans. Might we not simply be swapping one source of methane for another?

Finally, more exciting vegan news (not that I’m obsessed or anything).

My son reports that following Chelsea vs Nottingham Forest at the weekend, he popped into Greggs for his customary post-match steak bake, stocks of which were perilously low. The new vegan sausage roll, below, by contrast...shelves full of the things.

Happy to say he still wasn’t tempted.
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#563505
anarchists targeting Jacob Rees-Mogg’s children

One anarchist Ian Bone whose been blowing raspberries at politicians since the 70s. This is not an equivalence to Jo Cox's murder but I can understand why Mail employee and Brexit populist Mrs Gove wishes to spread the blame around in a slippery Corbyn like manner and generalise the hate that's stirred up in this country. Not a single arrest was made among the hundreds of thousands who march against Brexit. That's the Britain that Mr and Mrs Gove despise.
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#563511
Something I've often thought to be a pertinent question. Remember that photo of the young Muslim woman looking with amusement/bemusement at some EDL thug getting in her face? Ask yourself, who would you rather have as a neighbour?

For all the talk from the likes of Brendan O'Neill and Alison Pearson about the authentic voice of the working class, they'd run a fucking mile.
lord_kobel liked this
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