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By Safe_Timber_Man
Membership Days Posts
#388465
You could show a Kipper undisputed facts, in black and white, with sources provided, and they'd still dismiss it if it doesn't fit in with what they believe. There is absolutely no way of getting through to people like that. No amount of talking to them and trying to make them see reason will change their minds. I don't know what the answer is, but I do know there has to be a point where you just have to say "fuck it, I give up".
 
By davidjay
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#388466
Abernathy wrote:
davidjay wrote:
I'm serious about talking to her and others like her because she is representative of a lot of the nation. What do you suggest we do - ignore them?
Look, David, I know you're not a stupid man. Why then do you keep missing the point about UKIP supporting people that Malcolm and I have been making repeatedly? I'm not advocating ignoring these people - okay? However, if they persist in being wrong, misguided, and not too put too fine a point on it, fucking racist, THEN (and only then), I am - and going further, condemning their racism. Did you miss the point about "White Dee's" views being already represented within focus groups?
I saw that, but I also saw plenty of references to her being thick, which I don't think she is. I would also say that of all the things you can call White Dee, racist isn't one of them. There are a lot of people like her who would say that they aren't being listened to. It's them who bear the brunt of every bit of shit that's dished out by whoever is in power and them who should be voting Labour en masse. The fact that they aren't has to be addressed.
 
By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#388477
A lot of people say they're 'not listened to'. As noted upthread what they really mean is they are not given what they want whenever they want it however unrealistic, wrong or unpleasant what they want is.

The Campaign Company did come up with some answers of how to engage with and detoxify the UKIP element.
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#388492
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:A lot of people say they're 'not listened to'. As noted upthread what they really mean is they are not given what they want whenever they want it however unrealistic, wrong or unpleasant what they want is.

The Campaign Company did come up with some answers of how to engage with and detoxify the UKIP element.

Seen. And I'd say that anyone that espouses UKIP must at the very least have their claims not to be racist scrutinised rather carefully. I seem to remember the same refrain of not being listened to being sung by the BNP, and before them the NF.
 
By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#388493
Another point is that you can listen to people until you are blue in the face, but when their message is inarticulate, incoherent and ignorant, how do you act on it?

We had many examples of that on the doorstep in the recent locals. A general feeling of frustration is hard to appease.

Also, please bear in mind that Kippers have considerably lower educational attainment than the average population according to surveys. This might suggest that they tend to be even further below average intelligence than most right wingers.
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#388505
Andy McDandy wrote:"Mr Stevenson, you have the vote of every thinking American!"

"That's great but I need a majority to win."
Ahh, yes. Many a true word spoken in jest.
By JuanTwoThree
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#392542
A presumably lefty teacher (boo!) tries to stop homophobia (reluctant hooray) but up against him are Muslim (boo!) Immigrants (boo!) and the Christian Right (boo? hurray?)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... hobia.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#392546
Malcolm Armsteen wrote: Also, please bear in mind that Kippers have considerably lower educational attainment than the average population according to surveys. This might suggest that they tend to be even further below average intelligence than most right wingers.

Another point is that you can listen to people until you are blue in the face, but when their message is inarticulate, incoherent and ignorant, how do you act on it?
For those in semi skilled jobs in deregulated sectors like construction that have seen wages plummet their gripes are neither the result of low educational attainment, far right beliefs or ignorance.

Immigrants of course don't pay low wages or cause labour market deregulation but Labour doesn't seem to have any policies to make collective bargaining easier or introduce industry wage councils that help sustain common wage rates throughout sectors. And that's the main problem labour activists have on the doorsteps.
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