Discussion of other UK political parties
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By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#400997
new puritan wrote:Any attempted rehash of '80s municipal socialism would be shut down by central government, yes - this is the main lesson Green Party leftists should have deduced from their Brighton experience - but the red-baiting in that piece (from a Labour candidate!) is pretty nauseating. Sure, the Greens are being opportunist with a general election around the corner but why berate their rank-and-file members for finally starting to show some backbone in the face of the Tory onslaught? Is it smart to attack the Greens from the right in a left-leaning city like Brighton? Probably not.

Caught Bennett on Sunday Politics though, pretty poor. Neil hates anyone vaguely green and leftish of course but Bennett should have seen that coming. I don't think Lucas would have withered in quite the same fashion.
Mark Drakeford, Welsh Health Minister, dealt easily enough with Neil.

Think the Greens in Brighton are in lot of trouble, though Lucas will hold.
 
By The Red Arrow
Membership Days Posts
#401182
Follow your convictions – this could be the end of the politics of fear
Syriza, Podemos, the SNP: the neoliberal consensus is collapsing. Forget tactical considerations in May and vote Green for a genuine alternative
George Monbiot
The Guardian, Wednesday 28 January 2015
Here is the first rule of politics: if you never vote for what you want, you never get it. We are told at every election to hold our noses, forget the deficiencies and betrayals and vote Labour yet again, for fear of something worse. And there will, of course, always be something worse. So at what point should we vote for what we want rather than keep choosing between two versions of market fundamentalism? Sometime this century? Or in the next? Follow the advice of the noseholders and we will be lost forever in Labour’s Bermuda triangulation.

Perhaps there was a time when this counsel of despair made sense. No longer. The lamps are coming on all over Europe. As in South America, political shifts that seemed impossible a few years earlier are now shaking the continent. We knew that another world was possible. Now, it seems, another world is here: the sudden death of the neoliberal consensus. Any party that claims to belong to the left but does not grasp this is finished.

Syriza, Podemos, Sinn Féin, the SNP; now a bright light is shining in England too, as the Green party stokes the radical flame that Labour left to gutter. On Tuesday morning, its membership in England and Wales passed 50,000; a year ago it was fewer than 15,000.

A survey by the website voteforpolicies.org.uk reports that in blind tests (the 500,000 people it has polled were unaware of which positions belong to which parties), the Green party’s policies are more popular than those of any other. If people voted for what they wanted, the Greens would be the party of government..

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -snp-green" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
By Zuriblue
Membership Days Posts
#401185
The Red Arrow wrote:Follow your convictions – this could be the end of the politics of fear
Syriza, Podemos, the SNP: the neoliberal consensus is collapsing. Forget tactical considerations in May and vote Green for a genuine alternative
George Monbiot
The Guardian, Wednesday 28 January 2015
Here is the first rule of politics: if you never vote for what you want, you never get it. We are told at every election to hold our noses, forget the deficiencies and betrayals and vote Labour yet again, for fear of something worse. And there will, of course, always be something worse. So at what point should we vote for what we want rather than keep choosing between two versions of market fundamentalism? Sometime this century? Or in the next? Follow the advice of the noseholders and we will be lost forever in Labour’s Bermuda triangulation.

Perhaps there was a time when this counsel of despair made sense. No longer. The lamps are coming on all over Europe. As in South America, political shifts that seemed impossible a few years earlier are now shaking the continent. We knew that another world was possible. Now, it seems, another world is here: the sudden death of the neoliberal consensus. Any party that claims to belong to the left but does not grasp this is finished.

Syriza, Podemos, Sinn Féin, the SNP; now a bright light is shining in England too, as the Green party stokes the radical flame that Labour left to gutter. On Tuesday morning, its membership in England and Wales passed 50,000; a year ago it was fewer than 15,000.

A survey by the website voteforpolicies.org.uk reports that in blind tests (the 500,000 people it has polled were unaware of which positions belong to which parties), the Green party’s policies are more popular than those of any other. If people voted for what they wanted, the Greens would be the party of government..

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -snp-green" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Well if Monbiot wants another 5 years of Cameron and co .....

Remember in the States in 2000 it was the left vote being split between the Democrats and the Greens (Ralph Nader) that gave us George Dubya Fuckwit Bush.
By Agnes
Membership Days Posts
#401208
Speaking as a person who, well, lives in Scotland, it's news to me that the SNP aren't bog-standard neoliberals. I know their council tax freeze is qualitatively different from Pickles's in some mysterious way that no one has ever bothered to explain and which certainly doesn't show, but I'm buggered if I can see how you can effect a race to the bottom on corporation tax in a Socialist way.

Monbiot's point about the Tories and Labour being two cheeks of the same arse would be ridiculous even if it were accurate. Ok, so the difference between the two parties isn't big enough for him. Fair enough. I'd like it larger too (as the man said). But there you are. The answer to his question, 'at what point should we vote for what we want rather than keep choosing between two versions of market fundamentalism?' is 'when "what you want" has a decent chance of winning," and right now it doesn't.

At the next election you have a choice: a Tory government or a non-Tory government. That's it. If you don't want a Tory government you vote for the candidate in your constituency most likely to beat the Tory, which is generally not going to be the Green. Or you can throw your vote away on a perfect candidate who'll never, ever, win, and then when the Tory wins you can sigh sadly and preen and say that you voted your conscience, and it'll Send A Message (we've sent the Tories quite a few messages over the past five years - such a pity that they always throw the envelopes away unopened), and your conscience will be clear, and people will suffer, and people will die.

... Sorry for the rant, but I've just spent several days drafting and re-drafting a mandatory reconsideration letter to try and persuade the DWP to give me the £40 per week which has kept me in the style to which I am accustomed (i.e. with electricity as well as food in the house), and though ideally I'd like to stoke radical flames like Mr Monbiot, I'm quite willing to settle for a government which treats me like a human being rather than an unnecessary drain on national resources which would be better spent on tax cuts for the very rich. Like the last government. You know. The Labour one.
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#401221
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Radical chic.

Isn't the SNP policy on council tax to the right of Pickles? English councils can raise to 1.99%. The SNP boast it's been frozen everywhere.

Syriza have won an election, and not done anything yet. And it's nothing like comparable to UK anyway.
Also Tsiparas when asked about his party's policy does not say 'I'm just the leader have a look at the website' like one Natalie Bennett did on Sunday
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#401252
A string of victories for the radical left will hopefully concentrate the minds of the powers that be. Even if like Natalie Bennet their programmes are ill thought out drivel. Its remarkable how innovative Western Capitalism was at solving problems in the Cold War era when there was an alternative to turn to. And pro Soviet Communist Parties weren't going to bother with constitutional niceties when it came to nationalising finance and the means of production.
 
By Projective Unity
Membership Days
#401262
Agnes wrote: That's it. If you don't want a Tory government you vote for the candidate in your constituency most likely to beat the Tory, which is generally not going to be the Green. Or you can throw your vote away on a perfect candidate who'll never, ever, win, and then when the Tory wins you can sigh sadly and preen and say that you voted your conscience, and it'll Send A Message (we've sent the Tories quite a few messages over the past five years - such a pity that they always throw the envelopes away unopened), and your conscience will be clear, and people will suffer, and people will die.
Seeing that I live in a safe Tory seat my vote will be wasted whoever I vote for. Besides, have you listened to Rachel Reeves - Labour will probably out-Tory-theTories on welfare
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#401263
Projective Unity wrote:
Agnes wrote: That's it. If you don't want a Tory government you vote for the candidate in your constituency most likely to beat the Tory, which is generally not going to be the Green. Or you can throw your vote away on a perfect candidate who'll never, ever, win, and then when the Tory wins you can sigh sadly and preen and say that you voted your conscience, and it'll Send A Message (we've sent the Tories quite a few messages over the past five years - such a pity that they always throw the envelopes away unopened), and your conscience will be clear, and people will suffer, and people will die.
Seeing that I live in a safe Tory seat my vote will be wasted whoever I vote for. Besides, have you listened to Rachel Reeves - Labour will probably out-Tory-theTories on welfare
She's useless, but she didn't actually say that. The Guardian was shit stirring.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... es-welfare" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

She's very clearly talking specifically about people turning down job offers.
By Agnes
Membership Days Posts
#401272
Projective Unity wrote:Seeing that I live in a safe Tory seat my vote will be wasted whoever I vote for. Besides, have you listened to Rachel Reeves - Labour will probably out-Tory-theTories on welfare
I was taking my lead from Monbiot's subheading about 'forget[ting] tactical considerations' which implied that he was addressing people in seats which could be taken off the Tories by tactical voting. If you're living in monkey-with-a-blue-rosette-land it's different.

There was a bit of a self-pitying tone to my original, I recognise. Sorry about that, everybody.
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