Topics about the Labour Party
:sunglasses: 68.8 % :thumbsup: 3.9 % 😯 0.5 % :grinning: 17.1 % 🧥 2 % 🙏 1.5 % 😟 2.4 % :cry: 2.4 % :shit: 1.5 %
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By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#566462
I'm sure I've seen evidence that what really drove the leave vote was otherwise stay at home voters in the Tory shires coming out in force. The legendary left behind northerners might be just that - a legend.
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Posts
#566467
It's not just that May's threatening martial law, is that loons like Rees-Mogg are on the news all the time. It's like a neverending John Redwood's leadership campaign. Labour made real hay with this stuff v Major. I think that before the referendum Labour picked up a bit, possibly because the Cabinet were on telly ripping it out of the PM. Why hasn't that happened this time?

Cable's apparently going after Brexit. No idea why he couldn't be gone already, I expect Swinson/Moran is being groomed to take over, but it's not like it's high profile leading 11 MPs.
 
By Winegums
Membership Days Posts
#566519
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:26 pm
cycloon wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:33 pm

But but but biggest party cos it lowered its fees to £3 and attracted lots of Green Party members who misdirected policy and lots of rather naive kids who had never thought about the realities of politics at all but fancied an extra grandad who told them what they wanted to hear instead of what they needed to know. And loads of people who supported Corbyn for shits and giggles. And Iraaaaq.
FTFY
Love to hear centrists minimise the Iraq war. Really helps me sleep at night knowing you have such poor insight that you'll never, ever get into control of the Labour party again. "You fucking kids whining about the wanton murder of a million people. Did you know under the socialists in the 70s we had a whole week where the bins weren't taken out?"

Also reminder that Corbyn won in all groups in the party, not just the 3 quidders you're so scared of. And that he won across all age groups, not just these ill-educated young people who want socialism.
 
By cycloon
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#566521
Winegums wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:16 pm
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:26 pm
cycloon wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 7:33 pm

But but but biggest party cos it lowered its fees to £3 and attracted lots of Green Party members who misdirected policy and lots of rather naive kids who had never thought about the realities of politics at all but fancied an extra grandad who told them what they wanted to hear instead of what they needed to know. And loads of people who supported Corbyn for shits and giggles. And Iraaaaq.
FTFY
Love to hear centrists minimise the Iraq war. Really helps me sleep at night knowing you have such poor insight that you'll never, ever get into control of the Labour party again. "You fucking kids whining about the wanton murder of a million people. Did you know under the socialists in the 70s we had a whole week where the bins weren't taken out?"
Love to hear whatever the fuck you are use the Iraq war as a way to avoid any and all discussion. Nobody fucking likes the Iraq war, except you, because it lets you pretend the world is Simpletonville and you're the wannabe mayor's most loyal puppy.
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#566522
His appeal at the time of the leadership election, and indeed in 2017, has been discussed and filleted ad nauseam. However, what's up for discussion now are not those events, but a) his apparent inability to make convincing inroads into a Tory party in disarray, b) his lack of leadership in the biggest political and social crisis to hit Britain in modern times, and c) his reliance on an inner circle that combines malice and incompetence in apparently equal measure.

Funnily enough, I'd still prefer him as prime minister than May. But that's a bit like saying I'd prefer a sore arse and a Mars bar to a really sore arse and concussion.
lord_kobel, oboogie, Abernathy and 1 others liked this
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Posts
#566523
Winegums wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:16 pm
Also reminder that Corbyn won in all groups in the party, not just the 3 quidders you're so scared of. And that he won across all age groups, not just these ill-educated young people who want socialism.
And increasingly his approval in all groups is dropping because he took their faith in him and decided to shaft everyone and not listen. Just like democracy didn't end in 2016 with the referendum, Corbyn wasn't elected for all eternity with a vote fixed in stone forever.

Next time there's a leadership election, they'll know precisely what he really thinks about increased party democracy, how he really acts when faced with bigotry in his own ranks, and exactly how much value he really places on securing the wellbeing of the country's poorest and most vulnerable if it means he has to compromise or - god forbid - take responsibility for a decision.
oboogie, lord_kobel liked this
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Posts
#566527
Also: a lot of those young kids who want socialism also might have wanted to study, work or travel in Europe. Jez would rather they stayed here and used their free bus pass to get to the low-paid fruit-picking jobs which is all they’ll have on offer.

And unfortunately for him, a lot of them have rumbled this. He was happy to have their votes and for them to sing his name, but he’s sure as hell not going to listen to them now they’re asking him to change course.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nce-brexit

Still, what do they know, eh? They’re probably all really young Conservatives. Or worse still, centrists. Fuck ‘em. Fuck *everyone* who doesn’t agree, and they can all keep fucking off until it’s JC, Milne, McDonnell and Abbot all screaming about traitors to absolutely no one.
 
By Winegums
Membership Days Posts
#566528
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:11 pm
Also: a lot of those young kids who want socialism also might have wanted to study, work or travel in Europe.
they don't. this rhetoric is why remain lost so hard (amongst other reasons of course). Erasmus and European travel just aren't priorities to young people from poorer backgrounds. People want stable employment, affordable housing and functional services and they've been told the EU stops them from getting this.

It's simply not a convincing line of conversation. "Vote remain so you can study in europe (and pay 9k per year plus living expenses)." "You can travel to europe without a visa (even though you're too skint to even look at the price of flights to Paris)".

It's one of the reasons I laugh off the idea of a second referendum. Even if it happens, and it might, remain is ran by intellectually and morally bankrupt people who think leave won purely because people were lied to, and that if a nice remain person just sits down and explains how all those pret a mengers only work because they are staffed by lithuanians, that the unwashed masses will vote remain next time.
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Posts
#566531
Winegums wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:16 pm
they don't. this rhetoric is why remain lost so hard (amongst other reasons of course). Erasmus and European travel just aren't priorities to young people from poorer backgrounds. People want stable employment, affordable housing and functional services and they've been told the EU stops them from getting this.

It's simply not a convincing line of conversation. "Vote remain so you can study in europe (and pay 9k per year plus living expenses)." "You can travel to europe without a visa (even though you're too skint to even look at the price of flights to Paris)".

It's one of the reasons I laugh off the idea of a second referendum. Even if it happens, and it might, remain is ran by intellectually and morally bankrupt people who think leave won purely because people were lied to, and that if a nice remain person just sits down and explains how all those pret a mengers only work because they are staffed by lithuanians, that the unwashed masses will vote remain next time.
Remain didn’t “lose hard” - it was a matter of 4%, an amount of people already shifted the other way due to deaths/new voters becoming eligible with no other changes, let alone the corruption and cheating by leave. Which - should we need reminding - should be more than reason to bin off this bullshit anyway.

Sure, not all people want to work and travel in Europe (though I don’t know why you seem to think only poor people would vote for Labour?). But if they want stable employment and affordable housing and services, well guess what? Jeremy’s fucked them there as well, hasn’t he? As Brexit will be (and already is) a catastrophe for the economy, with industrial areas worst hit. Even if he gets elected after Brexit, there will be no money for any of it.

You sit there, thinking remain is about ghastly middle class people trying to lecture poor people on what they should want, making cracks about Pret A Manger, all the while defending the (in)action of an insulated, mollycoddled, more than comfortably off career slacker who is ignoring ACTUAL poor people telling him they want him to fight for their jobs and their businesses and their rights. You’re the one telling people you know best about their lives and their work and what they want - and apparently what’s best for them is decades more of crushing austerity and having their freedoms and rights shrunk down because some dullard who flunked out of college thinks it’d be a cracking wheeze to try a social experiment that has failed in every country where his heroes - dictators to a man - have tried it. You’re the one assuming wanting to not have your rights and your country and your prospects shafted, and to have an honest conversation with the electorate on how yes, it was a lie and yes, immigration is actually a good thing is somehow elitist.

And the real joke here is you probably think you’ve come to the conclusions you have because it’s the decent socialist thing. But that, of course, is another lie you’ve convinced yourself to swallow. Because if Jeremy changed to remain tomorrow you’d be on here telling us how he’d always supported it and it was centrists and blairites holding him back from declaring his intent so fast it’d give you vertigo.

Remain covers all walks of life, all backgrounds, all incomes. There’s only one person here working to further the nonsensical dreams of an arrogant bunch of lazy, hubristic career politicians who have never got their hands dirty, never had to worry about making ends meet and never had to concern themselves with anything more than hand-wringing on behalf of the people they think they know best for.

The real Jeremy Corbyn is the one who even today got Islington Council to paint over a billboard of a blank tweet of his that had had kids from his community write demands on for him to listen to them on Brexit, and to stand up for their futures.

That’s your fucking socialist hero right there, winegums. Throwing his weight around to shut poor kids up because he knows best. You kid yourself all you want that remain is a load of latte-sipping thirtysomething centrists who are just worried that Brexit will mean they can’t get cheap flights to Tuscany. The rest of us will keep fighting for lorry drivers and factory workers and musicians and farm workers and absolutely fucking everyone let down by Corbyn’s inability to stand the fuck up when he needed to, and his followers pathetic pettyness in not telling him to step the fuck down when it became obvious he was always going to put ideology before any effort to do genuine good.
Andy McDandy, Abernathy, Boiler and 4 others liked this
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