Discussion of other UK political parties
:sunglasses: 50 % ❤ 6.3 % :grinning: 37.5 % :shit: 6.3 %
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By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#564756
Killer Whale wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:25 pm
You have a low toxicity threshold, don't you? That's no more than silly.

Those dastardly Scots, eh? Refusing to march into the Tory machine guns for the sake of English Labour.
The denial of facts, attacking the media, denouncing experts all occurred during the indyref, the Brexiters just took it to another level.
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By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#564757
Started long before that, even if the last few years took it to a new level.

Back in 2006 when I joined this forum, we were reeling at the BTL viciousness. And before that, just check out some editorials from the Su and Mail in the 80s.
 
By Kreuzberger
Membership Days Posts
#564766
Salmond popularised, amplified and ultimately weaponised the phrase "Project Fear", that is surely beyond doubt. Single-handedly, he destroyed debate but blunting any point put to him.

Being lightly armed with informed counter-argument had served us reasonably well up until that point.

Something of a paradox, (irrelevant, perhaps), is that I would now vote Oot in any IndyRef 2.0 should it happen within the next one year, eleven months and eighteen days. He might not be afforded the same opportunity.
 
By Biggus Robbus
#564789
Well for me Osborne and Cameron did engage in "Project Fear" in both referendums.

It was a travesty that the remain campaign was left to dumber and dumber.

That said Salmond did exploit their genuine "fearmongering". He can have no qualms about the outcome of the Brexit referendum or the UK's decision to leave the EU.

As for the claims of criminal sexual offences, I would prefer to wait for due process to play out.
 
By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#564808
It's a tough one because there was a need to point out the negatives of leaving in both campaigns, because they were (and in one case are) many and varied. What Salmond did was lump the legitimate, genuine concerns (what about the status and rights of the British citizens living in the EU?) with the more trivial or batshit ones, or indeed the ones the opposing side simply made up (like Boris and his WW3 ideas). Not everything can be happy clappy, everything will be fine in the end because it normally won't with that attitude.
 
By Kreuzberger
Membership Days Posts
#565230
After today, the case for Scottish independence must have been strengthened beyond measure.

This is not just down to Labour's sneering abstention to Blackford's amendment, but because the carnage of No Deal is now a very real possibility. Scotland didn't vote for this but did vote for a stable and vital place within the EU.

I was wholly wrong to be against independence in 2014. I deeply regret that.
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#565245
Kreuzberger wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:55 pm
Scotland didn't vote for this but did vote for a stable and vital place within the EU.

I was wholly wrong to be against independence in 2014. I deeply regret that.
In the climate of the time, in which Scots were assured that the surefire way to remain in the EU (as independence would lead to Scotland needing to re-apply for EU membership as an independent country) was to vote to reject independence, I too was pretty vehemently opposed to independence, and broadly, I think I was right to be.

However, on the morning of 24 June 2016 and in the cold light of the UK EU referendum, I instantly shared the feeling of what must be hundreds of thousands of Yes voters in the 2014 ref that Scots had been vilely traduced.

Brexit is sheer, unadulterated, gibbering madness, and Scots have a very legitimate grievance at being dragged into it against the will of a clear majority of Scots.

Like you, Kreuzy, I now recognise, understand, and support Scots' renewed desire for independence from the UK. Who'd want to stay part of the insanity of Brexit?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/ ... -1-4864514
 
By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Posts
#565305
Abernathy wrote:
Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:39 am
Kreuzberger wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:55 pm
Scotland didn't vote for this but did vote for a stable and vital place within the EU.

I was wholly wrong to be against independence in 2014. I deeply regret that.
In the climate of the time, in which Scots were assured that the surefire way to remain in the EU (as independence would lead to Scotland needing to re-apply for EU membership as an independent country) was to vote to reject independence, I too was pretty vehemently opposed to independence, and broadly, I think I was right to be.

However, on the morning of 24 June 2016 and in the cold light of the UK EU referendum, I instantly shared the feeling of what must be hundreds of thousands of Yes voters in the 2014 ref that Scots had been vilely traduced.

Brexit is sheer, unadulterated, gibbering madness, and Scots have a very legitimate grievance at being dragged into it against the will of a clear majority of Scots.

Like you, Kreuzy, I now recognise, understand, and support Scots' renewed desire for independence from the UK. Who'd want to stay part of the insanity of Brexit?

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/ ... -1-4864514
Plus the added amusement of watching the English tories struggle to manage not one, but two land borders.
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#565399
Salmond popularised, amplified and ultimately weaponised the phrase "Project Fear", that is surely beyond doubt. Single-handedly, he destroyed debate but blunting any point put to him.


Strangely a 'Project Fear' strategy may yet lead to independence but not in any way Salmond could have foreseen.

Sturgeon still has a lot of furniture to move around before Indyref2 is called but what would the union campaign look like? Labour and LD big beasts have now faded so its looking thin on the ground for Ruth Davidson and Richard Leonard. Notable switchers to indy due to Brexit: Billy Connolly, Ewan MacGregor and David Tennant.
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#565411
Brexit will hinder them too. It shows how you secede from a bigger grouping- they call the shots. And into that Scotland being a net a big net recipient of money from rUK (except in oil booms) and sharing a currency. It would be like Spain leaving the EU, not the UK leaving it.

But of course it isn't all about money.
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