Area for all other political discussion
:sunglasses: 63.6 % ❤ 27.3 % 🙏 9.1 %
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#569140
I remember being eight and taking pennies to school in an envelope for earthquake victims in Italy.

I remember being thirteen and being stopped in the car with my dad in the Pyrenees, and being ordered out at gunpoint by Franco's thugs.

I remember being fifteen and reading Andersch's vivid description of Rerik and thinking I would never be allowed to get within a hundred miles.

I remember being twenty-two and getting drunk and high enough to muster enough bravado to take the piss out of the guards at Warschauer Brücke.

I remember my first trip on the Channel Tunnel ferry train.

I remember the first commercial I shot in Prague.

I remember the day my son earned his masters in Amsterdam.

I remember the day we moved our business base from London to Tallin.

I remember the day I met the woman who will marry me this year.

I could go on.

Admire the E.U.? I fucking adore it!
Abernathy, Biggus Robbus, youngian and 4 others liked this
#569144
I adore the EU as well, or at least the bits of it I frequent.

I like being a citizen and not a subject.

I like being surrounded by tolerant, grown up people.

I like peace.
WTF?, The Red Arrow liked this
#569146
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:08 pm
I like being a citizen and not a subject.
We haven't been 'subjects' since 1948, thanks to the British Nationality Act of that year. Just thought I'd mention that, mon ami.
#569150
I do not see a problem with a federal Europe to be honest.

I think the US has a real problem with republicans filling the courts with conservative judges. Basically ignoring significant sections of the electorate, which is a fairly new thing in US politics. Pluralism is suffering.

I think the EU is actually more pluralist than the US at the moment.

Any federal government really needs to start out with a clear constitution that places limits on its and states' powers. It also needs to delegate what the federal government's powers are and what states' powers are.

The legislative branch of that government must not concede too much power to the fucking executive branch also. Fucking building a wall is a national emergency... harumph....
#570657
After Tusk's speech today, I've given up and unliked the last few pro-Remain pages I had on Facebook. They've become as mouth-frothingly tribalist and blinkered as any UKIP page. Tusk is being lauded as some sort of hero and champion of the British people, despite blocking every attempt at a mutual guarantee of citizens rights as far back as 2016, and as recently as a few weeks ago. I've just been hounded off the InFacts page for daring to point this out.

How the fuck did we get here, where the good sides I've always stood for, the Labour Party and British membership of the EU, have been subsumed by so many utter fucking idiots, who have just co-opted the cause of decency to be on a team and insult anyone who dares deviate from their world view as 'impure'? I think the problems we face right now are every bit as much on our own side as any insurgency on the right.
#570660
The question to ask both sides is; what will you do to accommodate the losing side’s concerns and aspirations? An EEA deal would be the answer for Brexiters but that’s something not enough Remainers think about. Reigning back labour market deregulation, an English assembly of the regions and a move to PR might be a good start. You’ll never placate mad old gammons shouting on Question Time but for those who wanted to stick it to Westminster because their town is a shit hole they just want to join the party.
Timbo liked this
#570667
youngian wrote:
Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:09 pm
The question to ask both sides is; what will you do to accommodate the losing side’s concerns and aspirations? An EEA deal would be the answer for Brexiters but that’s something not enough Remainers think about. Reigning back labour market deregulation, an English assembly of the regions and a move to PR might be a good start. You’ll never placate mad old gammons shouting on Question Time but for those who wanted to stick it to Westminster because their town is a shit hole they just want to join the party.
I'm back and forth a lot on PR. I think it works regionally but not nationally. We never got rid of the constituent nations of the UK so running central govt. under that system would pretty much move Scotland, Wales and NI into 'margin of rounding error' status democratically. The rest of what you say I certainly agree with.
#570669
High turnout was the only encouraging thing about the EURef and produced peculiar results of Tory Remain and Labour Leave constituencies due to many people realising their vote would count for once. I’m not passionate about PR but FPTP arithmetic is becoming more unrepresentative. A top up system like Scotland would be ok.
Timbo liked this
#570671
Regional assemblies have been mooted, to little positive reception. The perception seems to be that they're just another tier of government.

Maybe it's their time, but I'd say that the fundamental problem is we've got an electorate that's simultaneously cynical and jaded, and profoundly ill informed.

Civics lessons for all might be a start.
Timbo, spoonman, lord_kobel liked this
#570679
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:08 pm
I adore the EU as well, or at least the bits of it I frequent.

I like being a citizen and not a subject.

I like being surrounded by tolerant, grown up people.

I like peace.
I adore the very notion of it. Giving up on "ever closer union" would be like questioning whether women should have been given the vote. It's simply the right and natural thing to do. Small groups of people, joining together and encouraging tolerance and peace by default. If our forebears had listened to the spiritual ancestors of the Brexiteers we'd still be daubing paint covered hands on cave walls. Those people have been the enemies of progress since day one. It just pisses me off that we've got to fight one of the battles in my time.

Still, there's no real reason why I should have expected my generation to be immune to this shit. After all, every previous generation has had to fight it to some degree or another. I suppose I should be thankful that I'm not in a trench somewhere. I had just hoped that the more mature democracies had left this sort of rubbish behind. If America and Britain can fuck up in the way they have over the past few years what chance for the relatively fledgling states in Africa or S.E. Asia?

If Brexit goes ahead, especially a hard brexit, I'll be forced to conclude that the human race can only learn lessons the hard way.

Brexit cunts, ruining my vista.
Kreuzberger, The Red Arrow, Watchman and 2 others liked this
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