Political talk from outside of the UK
:sunglasses: 66.7 % :thumbsup: 33.3 %
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By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Posts
#569253
spoonman wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 5:21 pm
I await a response from the NRA in the USA and its mouth-breathing hangers on to say that the massacre would have been stopped had the bad armed alt-right terrorist guy with a semi automatic machine gun came face to face with a good bunch of Muslim guys in that mosque armed with semi automatic machine guns.

But in a less dark sarcastic view, the main perpetrator sounds like someone who is a regular 4chan /pol/ poster brought to life (noting that he found more of a home on the even more sordid 8chan). I guess fellow idealogues will go one of three ways, either praise or celebrate the killings in a covert manner that attracts victim blaming, attempt to try and distract from the fallout by claiming that the "mainstream media" is using the incident to paint all alt-right and "denial of being alt-right" arseholes with a large brush (with no recognition of irony by them), or try and claim that this was a false-flag operation. The last one for once I seriously doubt even Alex Jones will try on given his current legal battles.
I've seen the "New Zealand's strict gun laws leave all their citizens defenceless" one several times today.

Without a thought about how they'd react to a large armed gathering INSIDE A MOSQUE!!


Very upset by this today.
I doubt that these losers will ever create the all out culture war that they crave.
So I'll settle for watching youtubes of that last Countryside Alliance (Whatever happened to them) London Rally.
 
By Safe_Timber_Man
Membership Days Posts
#569261
The Weeping Angel wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:04 pm
Safe_Timber_Man wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:24 pm
He used relatively obscure memes which, unless you take some interest in internet culture and know about 4chan 8chan etc, it wouldn't mean a lot. The likes of The Sun and Daily Mail will just lump this is as "The Internet" and allowing social media to 'spread hate' (never mind their own fucking publications).

Where it gets a bit more complicated is the Alt-Right mouthpieces seem to be trying to make this guy a lot more intelligent and calculated that he is. The memes he used were not hidden messages. He wasn't attempting to use them, or mention PewDiePie (YouTuber) to further a 'culture war' in some clever and sophisticated way. He was just a typical 4chan type loser who was trying to appeal to his pretend internet friends by using memes which they know about and would laugh at.

Remember that when/if you read some bullshit essay from the likes of Paul Joseph Watson or Sargon of Akkad trying to turn this into a pity party about how The Right are being used to accelerate some ongoing culture war and the media have 'fallen for it'.
Why should the big tech giants be let off the hook?


I mean...that's got literally nothing to do with anything I've said? This has got nothing to do with the big tech giants. I did say that some of the tabloids will probably use this to push their agenda against them but they've got no hook to be let off with regards to this. Try not to let your own little bug bears cloud your comprehension, fella.
 
By Big Arnold
Membership Days Posts
#569266
youngian wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:02 pm
Sadiq Khan on Ch4 News giving both barrels to the Tories for running the most racist campaign ever against him due to his faith.
I’ve had no apology from Zac, no apology from the party he belongs to. These aren't people on the periphery. They are national politicians. Some have held the job I hold.


Tories respond in true Trump style
Sadiq Khan's faith was not an issue in the campaign to become Mayor which was conducted with integrity, honesty & by appealing to Londoners regardless of their colour or creed.
Top Conservatives condemn Zac Goldsmith's 'disgusting' mayoral campaign
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... l-campaign
 
By Biggus Robbus
#569273
What I am tired of is anyone using any kind of politics to attack this shit.

I am tired of Islamic terrorism.

I am tired of right wing terrorism.

I am tired of terrorism.

There should be no need to point that this is wrong. So can we all stop scoring political points?
 
By MisterMuncher
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#569274
Yup. And you could find half a dozen equally credible posts in a week if your brain could tolerate the absolute horror of 8chan. And as many for beating women, gang rape, unspecified mass murder, suicide...

And even more, egging them on. And no doubt anniversary posts for Anders Breivik and Elliott Rodger and whoever else. It's a fucking sewer.

And as for political points, why the fuck not? It was terrorism, by definition an explicitly political act.
 
By spoonman
Membership Days Posts
#569275
The Weeping Angel wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:55 pm
spoonman wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:23 pm
The Weeping Angel wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:04 pm
Why should the big tech giants be let off the hook?
Other than removing content that is either illegal or against their ToS, I've never really understood the eagerness to blame what is essentially a neutral conduit that can't realistically do 100% screening in real time. To me it's like blaming BT or Vodafone for receiving malicious or threatening phone calls.
Like murder?



Hours, HOURS after this atrocity and they were still available to watch.
The big problem is that even with computer programmed algorithms, the sheer amount of content on YouTube where lots creators and uploaders try to game the system and do so successfully means that such material relies on human interaction to deal with them. The last time I checked YouTube were getting uploaded on average every minute over 60 hours of video. Even with automated blocks in place such a huge amount of material would require a huge amount of personnel to handle and holding all uploads to be reviewed before being published for the public isn't practical.

Therefore one of the best courses of action for such an 800 lb giant is to rely a lot on visitors reporting uploaded videos that break ToS. Unfortunately this system can itself be gamed where rather innocuous video content gets flagged for fake takedown notices, fake copyright claims etc. through coordinated attacks. So nothing will ever be perfect, the best you can hope for is to try and do your best.

And while by far the most popular video clip website, there's more out there than just YouTube. Dailymotion & Vimeo are decent alternatives, LiveLeak has a known reputation of allowing content to be published that could be described as edgy. And that's before you get to some sites where pretty much anything goes other than explicit child pornography.
Safe_Timber_Man liked this
 
By spoonman
Membership Days Posts
#569276
lord_kobel wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:33 pm
spoonman wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:23 pm
To me it's like blaming BT or Vodafone for receiving malicious or threatening phone calls.
BT doesn't choose which unsolicited calls to push at you. Facebook does. It has algorithms designed to control what you see.
But Facebook even with an algorithm that filters what is personally published to you is still behaving as a neutral actor because the filter is built up from the the information the user has supplied as well as its interaction on the platform. Zuckerberg isn't uploading & pushing gore videos personally on your time line just for shits and giggles. And ironically if Facebook didn't have such programming in place to suggest what might interest you based on your previous actions designed to personalise what you want to receive, then it stops being a "social network" and it's raison d'etre is gone. So blaming Facebook for having a filter or algorithm to personalise your experience on its platform is a moot point.
#569277
Safe_Timber_Man wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:33 pm
The Weeping Angel wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:04 pm
Safe_Timber_Man wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 3:24 pm
He used relatively obscure memes which, unless you take some interest in internet culture and know about 4chan 8chan etc, it wouldn't mean a lot. The likes of The Sun and Daily Mail will just lump this is as "The Internet" and allowing social media to 'spread hate' (never mind their own fucking publications).

Where it gets a bit more complicated is the Alt-Right mouthpieces seem to be trying to make this guy a lot more intelligent and calculated that he is. The memes he used were not hidden messages. He wasn't attempting to use them, or mention PewDiePie (YouTuber) to further a 'culture war' in some clever and sophisticated way. He was just a typical 4chan type loser who was trying to appeal to his pretend internet friends by using memes which they know about and would laugh at.

Remember that when/if you read some bullshit essay from the likes of Paul Joseph Watson or Sargon of Akkad trying to turn this into a pity party about how The Right are being used to accelerate some ongoing culture war and the media have 'fallen for it'.
Why should the big tech giants be let off the hook?


I mean...that's got literally nothing to do with anything I've said? This has got nothing to do with the big tech giants. I did say that some of the tabloids will probably use this to push their agenda against them but they've got no hook to be let off with regards to this. Try not to let your own little bug bears cloud your comprehension, fella.
It has he it streamed live on Facebook, but it goes beyond and goes to the issue of how Facebook, Google and YouTube use their algorithms to spread hate. Look at where he was radicalised sites like 8 chan and 4 chan have helped create monsters, angry enraged monsters who want to lash out against the world, all made possible thanks to Big Tech.
 
By spoonman
Membership Days Posts
#569279
MisterMuncher wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:54 pm
The bother with /pol and the rest of the Chan-sites is that it's almost literally impossible to separate the genuinely dangerous lunatics from straight-up sick little bastards. It's GIFT in a box.
I've came to the conclusion over its existence that 4chan is secretly a sociological and psychological long term experiment to measure in time the idea that the longer one acts being a complete idiot, the more likely it becomes that the same is actually becoming a complete idiot, and that those who are acting the complete idiot are attracting actual complete idiots to the point that the site becomes an idiocracy that is actively rotting from its core, eating up the new idiot fodder it attracts.

4chan didn't used to be quite so bad even if the site was the dictionary definition of NSFW from the beginning, as at one time they actually used to rat on neo-Nazis and dregs like the Westboro Baptist Church & Scient0l0gy in amongst a lot of dumb stuff that occasionally could be at least slightly amusing and being the birthplace of the modern day Internet meme. But it seemed to turn a sharp nasty corner all round sometime in 2013 or so which started to see the scum rise to the surface when "gamergate" became prominent. It became so bad that even Moot was getting fed up with the shit that was happening and banned doxes, causing large numbers of dickheads to find a home elsewhere (mainly 8chan, which is even worse if that can be imagined).

It could be said that "chan culture" has ended up becoming a parody of itself.
 
By lord_kobel
Membership Days Posts
#569289
spoonman wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 12:58 am
But Facebook even with an algorithm that filters what is personally published to you is still behaving as a neutral actor because the filter is built up from the the information the user has supplied as well as its interaction on the platform.
As we've seen with Brexit and Trump, frankly that's just bollocks.
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