Topics about the Labour Party
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By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#584062
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:31 am
He's absolutely running down the clock, because he still thinks that if he can have brexit and not be involved he'll somehow not be held responsible by the electorate whatsoever and will romp home at a subsequent GE.
Claiming to have been present but not involved? Not like he's ever done that before.
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Posts
#584070
It’s the perfect scenario for them - you back Corbyn and he becomes PM, or you’re a Tory. Lets them define everyone as an ally or enemy in one broad stroke - no nuance, no other concerns allowed to come into it. Everyone - Labour, Lib Dem, Tory moderate, independent, undecided, journalist - who doesn’t back him is instantly in the exact same category as Boris Johnson.

It is as myopic as it is arrogant.
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#584071
The Cult adopt a hurt pose in response to questioning whether Corbyn should be a caretaker PM - how dare anyone question the worth of their hero?

But you know what? I'd be absolutely fine with Corbyn doing what he says he'll do - postponing No Deal, setting up an early election and fucking off .

I think holding the election rather than holding the referendum that is needed to kill Brexit for good is completely pants, and I'm deeply uncomfortable at McDonnell's suggestion that Labour might adopt a "neutral" position in a referendum, but I'll take stopping No Deal with Corbyn as caretaker PM as a prelude to the election if it can be done.

If the general election brings a defeat for Labour of a scale sufficient to bring about the end of the nightmarish Corbyn debacle, then all well and good.

But unfortunately, in practical terms, it won't and can't happen. Bringing down the Johnson government via a motion of no confidence requires cross party support from right across the house, including some Tory rebels. If those Tories in particular are required to support no confidence in the knowledge that it will result in Jeremy Corbyn's installation as a caretaker PM, they just won't do it. It's as simple as that.

By stubbornly holding out, and it's noticeable that Corbyn has now shifted from claiming that he would only move the motion of NC if he was certain of success, to saying he will move it regardless and exerting pressure on MPs to support him or be responsible for No Deal, Corbyn is risking No Deal.

I can't quite make up my mind whether he is doing this solely because of his characteristic hopelessness, or through the sheer venal ambition by proxy of his controllers, Seumas Milne, Karie Murphy, and Andrew Murray (with prompts from McCluskey).
Boiler liked this
 
By Snowflake
#584072
If he could command a majority in the Commons, I too would happily support Jez on the basis of extending article 50, calling a general election and fucking off, but placing the country in a position where Johnson is allowed to steamroller ahead with a no deal Brexit unchallenged will never be forgotten.

Oh hang on though, Johnson thinks he can manage to secure some new concessions from Brussels.
 
By bluebellnutter
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#584083
Abernathy wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:27 pm
But unfortunately, in practical terms, it won't and can't happen. Bringing down the Johnson government via a motion of no confidence requires cross party support from right across the house, including some Tory rebels. If those Tories in particular are required to support no confidence in the knowledge that it will result in Jeremy Corbyn's installation as a caretaker PM, they just won't do it. It's as simple as that.
I somewhat disagree. I think if there was a VONC it would win basically any time from now. There is then the two week window to find something that works. Winning the VONC is the easy bit, it's what comes next that's the kick in the balls.
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#584085
bluebellnutter wrote:
Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:58 am
Abernathy wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:27 pm
But unfortunately, in practical terms, it won't and can't happen. Bringing down the Johnson government via a motion of no confidence requires cross party support from right across the house, including some Tory rebels. If those Tories in particular are required to support no confidence in the knowledge that it will result in Jeremy Corbyn's installation as a caretaker PM, they just won't do it. It's as simple as that.
I somewhat disagree. I think if there was a VONC it would win basically any time from now. There is then the two week window to find something that works. Winning the VONC is the easy bit, it's what comes next that's the kick in the balls.
Well, they can't table the NC motion until parliament is back in session on 3 September, but it would be sensible to get the ducks in a row before the actual vote.

I'd say that rebel Tories are perhaps only marginally more likely to vote for NC in Johnson's government without any firm indication of what might follow - after all, they'd still have to vote for the same thing again after 14 days to ensure Johnson is out, and again, they'd want to stop caretaker PM Corbyn. I don't think there's any sign of sufficient Tories resiling from not supporting Corbyn as caretaker PM yet.
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#584110
I must have missed the time when Milliband and his advisors mishandled Labour's response to the biggest crisis facing Britain since the second world war.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... d-miliband
In that moment you could feel British politics lurching out of its rut. Labour was about to pick its next leader – and instead of choosing the favourite, the old Tony Blair tribute act, voters were throwing a giant spanner in the works. They wanted the slightly gawky leftwing underdog. They wanted a transformed party, a bigger politics. They wanted Ed Miliband.

So much has changed this decade that it seems absurd to consider how at its start, in 2010, a 40-year-old father of two and whiz on a Rubik’s Cube was considered the biggest threat to the British establishment. Did that really happen? Yes, confirm the archives. He was Red Ed, a “Marxoid creep” (the Daily Mail, of course), the man with the sneaky plan to turn the country into some socialist banana republic.
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#584150
I have seen this quite outrageous claim from members of The Cult several times.

Needless to say, it is an out and out lie comparable with anything Donald Trump could come up with.

Corbyn had nothing whatsoever to do with the achievement of the Good Friday agreement. Not even involved at the margins.

It's astonishing the mythology that has grown up in Cult circles.
Boiler, spoonman, oboogie liked this
 
By spoonman
Membership Days Posts
#584167
Next up: The "cult" will proclaim that if Labour win a general election under Corbyn, there will be no massive queues and delays for cross-Channel traffic after Brexit takes place, as the anointed one will stand on the cliffs facing out to the Straits of Dover, and raise his arms to part the sea so everyone can walk or drive over to France.
Last edited by spoonman on Wed Aug 21, 2019 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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