Discussion of other UK political parties
:sunglasses: 48.4 % ❤ 6.5 % :thumbsup: 3.2 % :grinning: 38.7 % 🙏 3.2 %
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By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#587118
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:47 am
I'm getting massively hacked off by (mainly) Labour supporters (and of that, mostly Corbyn fans) trying to pin Swinson saying no to a Corbyn-led govt of unity as selfish and stupid. It's not, because even if she was all over it like a rash it wouldn't happen as the ex-Tories etc will not support him, and the moment she says yes the Tories have "Vote Lib Dem, get Corbyn" as a campaign slogan.

He's not going to be caretaker PM. The LDs being for or against that has no effect on that. Corbyn needs to get his fucking ego out of the equation and support another, temporary, candidate. It's not even in his best interests - someone neutral would be a far better prospect for the forthcoming GE campaign. The tories/BXP would make the most of PM Corbyn delaying brexit for a GE and then a referendum and Corbyn would have a much harder time with his preferred fence-sitting (so even from his own wrong policy, it's a wrong move). They'd have a much harder time of making it about remoaners with e.g. Ken Clarke.
The Corbots argue that a temporary PM Corbyn temporarily in number ten would detoxify Corbyn's image as a left wing bogeyman and demonstrate that Jezza as PM would not be as bad as the Tories - and just about everybody else - would have you believe, with the bonus of doing the statesman-like thing into the bargain and improving his, and Labour's chances once the election arrives. They might be right about that, but arguably, Corbyn would benefit more by stepping aside, selflessly and statesman-like, to enable a government of national unity to be formed, save us from hard Brexit, and either set up a final say referendum or call the election.

I think that realistically, the latter is Corbyn's only real option. I do agree that the vitriol being slung at Swinson is not justified.
Timbo, lord_kobel, oboogie liked this
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#587127
Corbyn would benefit more by stepping aside, selflessly and statesman-like, to enable a government of national unity to be formed

Especially as Corbyn has little to gain by being handed the interim job. I doubt voters like upsurpers especially the 80 percent who think Corbyn’s a dud.
oboogie, Timbo, Tubby Isaacs liked this
 
By Snowflake
#587143
I would support the Lib Dems, but I still can't help feeling there is a personal element to this, going back to July when Swinson tabled a vote of no confidence and Corbyn refused to back it.
#587152
Snowflake wrote:
Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:00 pm
I would support the Lib Dems, but I still can't help feeling there is a personal element to this, going back to July when Swinson tabled a vote of no confidence and Corbyn refused to back it.
There might be, but the end result is it still doesn't matter - if the LDs back Corbyn they gift the Tories an attack line, piss off any voters they've picked up who shifted over specifically because of Corbyn, and it makes no difference regardless because it won't come close to giving Corbyn the numbers. Corbyn doesn't even deserve the respect of having it done as a token gesture, given he's been dragged to this point kicking and screaming (or kicking and being a petulat grump, at least).

If it were a different leader, then I would probably argue the complete opposite. But also I probably wouldn't have to, because they'd already be backing remain and have clear water between themselves and the Tories rather than the party being behind in the polls and the leader being as popular as ebola-laced pepperami at a vegan buffet.
lord_kobel, oboogie liked this
 
By youngian
Membership Days Posts
#587327
Swinson’s more than made her point about Corbyn while putting little work into wooing left of centre tactical voters apart from opposing Brexit. But at least she has Corbyn help her achieve that. Overtaking Jez’s approval ratings is no big deal and the Don’t Knows are still polling in force.
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#587341
Guto Bebb said he'd put Corbyn in to avert No Deal. Who else would? Any of those ex Tory MPs with ambitions left will vote against him. Soames and the retirees will be abstain at best. Same with the ex Labour independents and Soubry and Sylvia Hermon.

I think Swinson's got Jez on this one. Not that I'd vote for her.
Boiler, Arrowhead, Timbo liked this
 
By Arrowhead
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#587431
I see Heidi Allen has finally donned the LD rosette tonight. Not sure why it took her so long, but she's a good fit for where I think Swinson is trying to steer the party. I'd be amazed if she doesn't keep hold of her seat at the upcoming GE.

Interestingly, Allen has stated that there are "up to twenty more" One Nation Tories on the verge of making the same jump. That number seems a bit high, but it's an interesting claim nonetheless.
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#587439
I didn't think she was going to do it, maybe thought she had enough profile to run without a party but with a clear run from the Lib Dems. Then again, you might as well run as a Lib Dem if you do that. I reckon she's a good bet to hold her seat too.

20 sounds way too many.
Arrowhead, Snowflake liked this
#587487
Of course, 'up to 20' also includes 0.

I'd love to see some jump ship though - away from the screaming insanity of the Corbyn cult where every single person who isn't an old-school socialist is equivalent to Thatcher at her most unhinged, it's obvious a lot of Tories are both reasonable people but also obliged to vote along with their party*. Boris and Cummings, if nothing else, have made it so they're finally at the stage where it's intolerable to be reasonable and a Tory at the same time and they have to leave.

*because this actually happens, and people make compromises etc.
Schmee liked this
 
By Samanfur
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#587921
Meet the husband of Angela "funny tinge" Smith. As Dawn Butler herself says, being told by a white man that your opinion is invalid is fairly normal in her position:
Lib Dem staffer apologises for saying Dawn Butler lied about racism

A Liberal Democrat staffer has been forced to apologise after he claimed that Labour’s Dawn Butler invented her experience of racial discrimination in parliament.

The shadow equalities minister wrote to the Lib Dem leader, Jo Swinson, asking for the suspension of Steve Wilson. He had criticised Butler on Twitter by saying her account of being confused for a cleaner in a lift in parliament because she was black was was “just not true” and she should stop “propagating” such “stories”.
Wilson made his apology after being contacted by the Guardian.
Butler has reported the incident to House of Commons authorities to ask for them to investigate, as well as to Swinson.
 
By Samanfur
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#587934
Allegedly, the Lib Dems have vetting procedures - if you believe Jo Swinson. But after they let Phillip Lee and a few of the other disaffected Tories (but especially Phillip Lee) in, even their own membership isn't convinced that those procedures're worth anything.

Considering what I've said before about the amount of ex-BNP Lib Dems around here, I've never been convinced.
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#587935
youngian wrote:
Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:08 am
Like the French Foreign Legion of legend anyone can join the Lib Dems and no questions are asked. Angela Smith, Ian Austin and Frank Field didn’t resign the Labour whip because Corbyn’s not enough of a pro-immigration liberal internationalist
I'm pretty sure that neither Austin or Field have joined the Lib Dems.
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