Topics about the Labour Party
:sunglasses: 59.2 % ❤ 1.6 % :thumbsup: 6.3 % 😯 2.5 % :grinning: 22.5 % 🧥 0.9 % 🙏 2.7 % 😟 1.1 % :cry: 2.3 % :shit: 0.9 %
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
  •  
 
By The Red Arrow
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#592388
The Weeping Angel wrote: I don't know. Also here's Corbyn once again being on the right side of History again.
Instead, it condemned NATO intervention as “one-sided” and said “all sides have committed atrocities”


Croatian generals jailed for war crimes against Serbs
Fury in Croatia as national hero Ante Gotovina is one of those convicted at The Hague for state-sponsored ethnic cleansing
(This article is more than 8 years old)

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2011/ap ... war-crimes
Operation Storm was prosecuted at lightning speed, highly successfully with strong American backing. It represented the denouement to the four-year war. A fortnight earlier at Srebrenica in Bosnia, the Serbs had committed the worst massacre of the Yugoslav wars, murdering almost 8,000 Muslim males.
 
By cycloon
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#592393
The Red Arrow wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:10 pm
The Weeping Angel wrote: I don't know. Also here's Corbyn once again being on the right side of History again.
Instead, it condemned NATO intervention as “one-sided” and said “all sides have committed atrocities”


Croatian generals jailed for war crimes against Serbs
Fury in Croatia as national hero Ante Gotovina is one of those convicted at The Hague for state-sponsored ethnic cleansing
(This article is more than 8 years old)

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2011/ap ... war-crimes
Operation Storm was prosecuted at lightning speed, highly successfully with strong American backing. It represented the denouement to the four-year war. A fortnight earlier at Srebrenica in Bosnia, the Serbs had committed the worst massacre of the Yugoslav wars, murdering almost 8,000 Muslim males.
Sorry, does this mean Corbyn's inherent antipathy to intervention is always spot on, then? I'm not sure it does anything of the sort.

We can really do without this tit-for-tat stuff, to be honest. Corbyn's stance is often correct, but that's not the same thing as him being a saint or some strategic god. It's because he's an inveterate 'other side of the coin' from US imperialism. One can do this without also handwaving bullshit and pretending there is no justice in anyone's position but your own.
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#592394
cycloon wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 12:22 am
The Red Arrow wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:10 pm
The Weeping Angel wrote: I don't know. Also here's Corbyn once again being on the right side of History again.
Instead, it condemned NATO intervention as “one-sided” and said “all sides have committed atrocities”


Croatian generals jailed for war crimes against Serbs
Fury in Croatia as national hero Ante Gotovina is one of those convicted at The Hague for state-sponsored ethnic cleansing
(This article is more than 8 years old)

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2011/ap ... war-crimes
Operation Storm was prosecuted at lightning speed, highly successfully with strong American backing. It represented the denouement to the four-year war. A fortnight earlier at Srebrenica in Bosnia, the Serbs had committed the worst massacre of the Yugoslav wars, murdering almost 8,000 Muslim males.
Sorry, does this mean Corbyn's inherent antipathy to intervention is always spot on, then? I'm not sure it does anything of the sort.

We can really do without this tit-for-tat stuff, to be honest. Corbyn's stance is often correct, but that's not the same thing as him being a saint or some strategic god. It's because he's an inveterate 'other side of the coin' from US imperialism. One can do this without also handwaving bullshit and pretending there is no justice in anyone's position but your own.
That article doesn't make Corbyn's posistion right he still refused to condemn the Serbs who commited the majority of atrocities during that conflict.
 
By The Red Arrow
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#592395
cycloon wrote:Sorry, does this mean Corbyn's inherent antipathy to intervention is always spot on, then? I'm not sure it does anything of the sort.

We can really do without this tit-for-tat stuff, to be honest. Corbyn's stance is often correct, but that's not the same thing as him being a saint or some strategic god. It's because he's an inveterate 'other side of the coin' from US imperialism. One can do this without also handwaving bullshit and pretending there is no justice in anyone's position but your own.
In this case, I'm merely providing facts from another point of view, I'll concede that, again in this case, they substantiate Corbyn's opinion on the matter - originally held up for apparent ridicule and belittlement for reasons best known to the original poster. Has Corbyn ever been wrong about anything? Of course he has. Who hasn't? Should we blindly accept the opinions of others? Surely that would seem at odds with the very reason that this forum was created. I happen to believe that in the two horse race currently offered to the electorate via a crap voting system in desperate need of reform, Corbyn's Labour is by far a better choice than Johnson's Tories. Anybody else?

Maybe that belief clouded my judgement. Perhaps I was wrong to think that an internet forum was the place to share information and imply an opinion.


The Weeping Angel wrote:That article doesn't make Corbyn's posistion right he still refused to condemn the Serbs who commited the majority of atrocities during that conflict.
League tables for atrocities now, is it? Shall we do Hitler and Stalin next?

The phrases "The reality is that all sides have committed atrocities. Those of the Serbs are fully reported. Croatia's are less well reported but no less real." and "If it is to retain any moral authority the international community must be seen to condemn all atrocities." would seem, at first sight, to be at odds with your accusation. Or would Corbyn merely being on the committee that put those statements out be innocence by association?

Bedtime. Busy day leafleting ahead. Oops! There I go, virtue signalling again. :P
Boiler, Schmee, Cyclist and 1 others liked this
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#592415
The Red Arrow wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 3:45 am

I happen to believe that in the two horse race currently offered to the electorate via a crap voting system in desperate need of reform, Corbyn's Labour is by far a better choice than Johnson's Tories. Anybody else?
Erm..... me too.

But then, I have always taken the view that the very worst Labour government is still a gazillion times better than the very best Tory government. Which isn't to say that a new Corbyn-led government, should it somehow come about in 5 days' time, will be egregiously bad. It may not be, though I do worry that the propensity to over-promise in the 2019 manifesto makes the delivery of everything that has been promised in the last 5 weeks extremely difficult actually to deliver, and so will limit a Labour government to a single term.

Above all, however, on the working assumption that Labour is heading for its fourth successive defeat and its second in succession under Corbyn's leadership, I will never forgive Jeremy Corbyn for his vainglorious refusal to acknowledge that the principal impediment to Labour's return to government at this election is Jeremy Corbyn himself. A better man or woman than Corbyn would have recognised this and made way for a leader less toxic to the voters Labour needs to attract at a time when the need for a Labour government has never been more urgent, and when the Tories in government have arguably never been easier to defeat. I think it was Alan Johnson who recently observed that this election by rights ought to be the easiest for Labour to win since 1997. He was right, and there is a single and singular reason why we will not win on Thursday. Jeremy Corbyn.
Last edited by Abernathy on Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
By Boiler
Posts
#592417
Tories are shit-scared of Corbyn, in the sense that they think he will turn this country into Venezuela/DPRK or summat - he'll take all their buy-to-lets off them and make them pay 110% income tax whilst letting any and every immigrant in and telling them they can only think what he says they can think and the country will permanently exist in January 1979.

At least, that's what my unrepresentative sample on a railway forum thinks.
 
By Boiler
Posts
#592418
Abernathy wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:24 pm
{...]there is a single and singular reason why we will not win on Thursday. Jeremy Corbyn.
True.

So what are you going to do about it? I'm truly sorry if that sounds harsh Abers, but you and many of your fellow members have got a real problem on your hands because ordinary, progressive members of the public have got no-one to vote for.

Much as I liked Ed Miliband, he's got a lot of blame to carry for this. 'Chaos with Ed Miliband' doesn't seem quite so fucking funny now, Ed.
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#592422
I do worry that the propensity to over-promise in the 2019 manifesto makes the delivery of everything that has been promised in the last 5 weeks extremely difficult actually to deliver, and so will limit a Labour government to a single term.
Me too. Plus I think Labour's gone too hard on "NHS drugs Trump £500m a week". I can't see there's any incentive for the Tories to do that. Their private healthcare mates have got what they want from the Lansley Act.

I realise it's a risky game to believe Boris Johnson, but I reckon he's more likely lying about the massive US trade deal he's going to deliver. It would be a brutal irony if Labour had made particular play of about the only promise he might keep.
 
By Abernathy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#592423
Well, the answer to your question is "What we can" . And what we can is limited for most of us to sticking around as members in order to vote for a decent and competent leader to replace Corbyn when (hopefully) the Corbyn nightmare is ended by the coming defeat.

It seems that much of The Cult has already departed or will do so when Magic Grandpa finally gets out of the way. The hope is that this will enable the election of a capable, decent successor to Corbyn.

However, that said, if the successor is Rebecca Long-Bailey or Laura Pidcock or similar even I might give up the ghost.
Boiler, youngian, oboogie liked this
 
By Boiler
Posts
#592427
Thanks for that, Abers.

As is well known, I have an intense dislike for the New Labour years borne out of personal experience and was hoping for something much less "Red Tory" after the 2010 defeat - but even with my limited imagination I never expected things to develop the way they did :(

I'm just worried that we're seeing the Labour Party turn into something akin to the Soviet Era, with leaders for life and new leaders appointed by an unaccountable Politburo.
Abernathy liked this
 
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#592438
Blair's trick was to make social progress palatable to selfish bastards. You can do good and it won't cost you - you even might make some coin out of it.
 
By Boiler
Posts
#592441
Andy McDandy wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:11 pm
Blair's trick was to make social progress palatable to selfish bastards. You can do good and it won't cost you - you even might make some coin out of it.
Which regrettably was at the expense of the disabled and those on benefits, where he did almost as good a job of demonising them as the Tories do.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews ... ke-up.html
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#592464
Boiler wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 6:23 pm
Thanks for that, Abers.

As is well known, I have an intense dislike for the New Labour years borne out of personal experience and was hoping for something much less "Red Tory" after the 2010 defeat - but even with my limited imagination I never expected things to develop the way they did :(

I'm just worried that we're seeing the Labour Party turn into something akin to the Soviet Era, with leaders for life and new leaders appointed by an unaccountable Politburo.
Under Ed there was an attempt to do just that.
  • 1
  • 831
  • 832
  • 833
  • 834
  • 835
  • 888
Marina Hyde - woman of fire

Marina is lava. https://www.theguardian.com/comme[…]

Meanwhile in America

Sad news. Didn't the Repubs prevent Obama appoi[…]

Boris Johnson

No comment needed... https://twitter.com/DavidGau[…]

Michael Gove

https://twitter.com/room808/status/130687105930039[…]