Discussion of article from the Mail's columnists and RightMinds contributors
:sunglasses: 63 % ❤ 4.3 % :thumbsup: 2.2 % 😯 4.3 % :grinning: 17.4 % 😟 4.3 % :cry: 4.3 %
By Kreuzberger
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Boiler wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:41 pm
Hang on a cotton-pickin' minute - a few moments ago there was sight of a 'vomit' Emoji?
By Boiler
"Your GIF's feminine viles vill not vork on me, Herr Kreuzberger...."

(although for some reason I am suddenly having strong flashbacks to midnight on the dance floor of a 'Doctor Who'-themed night club in Manchester in 2002...)
By Safe_Timber_Man
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After previously sneering and belittling the #MeToo movement Sarah now pretends to care and stand in solidarity with the women she dismissed.

This is from when she previously compared the movement against the rape of women with kissing under the mistletoe.
First against the wall is humble mistletoe: to be exact, smooching beneath it, which is no longer considered ‘appropriate’ in this post #MeToo age.

But now she cares...

SARAH VINE: The most shattering truth about Harvey Weinstein and women has been laid bare
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/arti ... -bare.html
mattomac liked this
By Safe_Timber_Man
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Vine has Botox which she feels forced into. It's not her fault, though. It's social media's fault.

Among such social media 'influencers', Botox and fillers and all the rest are no longer the exception, they are the norm — 'Instagram Face', they call it.

And Fiona Bruce is right: these pouting paragons of perfection do make the rest of us look 'rough'. Even if you know it's all fake, it's hard not to be seduced by it.

SARAH VINE: Sorry, I'm not blessed with Fiona Bruce's steely resolve to shun Botox

Fiona Bruce is almost unique among her generation of high-profile female presenters in that she has never — so she says — succumbed to the temptation of Botox.

In an industry where frozen foreheads abound, she remains steadfastly untouched by the needle at 55, even though, as she puts it: 'If you don't do it, as I don't, you look pretty rough by comparison.'

I think she's being a bit hard on herself. With her impeccable poise and perpetual low-key glamour, Bruce is the last person I would describe as looking 'rough'.

But there is undoubtedly something in what she says. Women these days view their appearance with an increasingly critical eye, often striving to achieve impossible levels of perfection in a world that seems to value appearance above almost everything else.

It's not just those who make a living on screen who feel this need; thanks to the popularity of image-based social media platforms such as Instagram, we all spend more time scrutinising our own reflections than is perhaps good for us.

And I should know. This time last year I had a thread lift, ostensibly for a magazine article but if I'm honest because, like Fiona Bruce, I was feeling somewhat 'rough'.

I wanted to look and feel just that little bit glossier, more confident — less like the rather cross, increasingly jowly person who greeted me every morning in the mirror.

A thread lift is a little more involved than Botox: in essence it involves inserting a number of barbed threads under the skin which are then tightened to lift the tissues of the face.

Over time the threads dissolve, leaving the lift in place.

It wasn't exactly painless; but it was quick, and it was effective. I left the clinic looking a little chipmunky but otherwise unscathed, and went straight to a lunch meeting.

Over the course of the following weeks and months, my skin grew smoother and my face less saggy. But perhaps more importantly, for the first time in years I felt quite good about myself. And, shallow as that may seem, it was the best feeling ever.

We live in a world where there is an entire new female aesthetic, fuelled by the rise of celebrities such as Kylie Jenner, Kim Kardashian and their many imitators, whose appearance relies heavily on the work of cosmetic surgeons.

Among such social media 'influencers', Botox and fillers and all the rest are no longer the exception, they are the norm — 'Instagram Face', they call it.

And Fiona Bruce is right: these pouting paragons of perfection do make the rest of us look 'rough'. Even if you know it's all fake, it's hard not to be seduced by it.

No wonder more and more of us are succumbing. According to a recent survey, 40 per cent of British adults are considering a non-surgical treatment in the next 12 months. In the UK alone, the market for these treatments is projected to rise to more than £3 billion a year within five years.

Like it or not, having one's facial expressions tweaked is fast becoming no more unusual than a visit to the dentist.

The sad truth is that we are not all blessed with Fiona's solid, sensible resolve — least of all me. I admire her tremendously. But I fear she may be fighting a losing battle.
By Cyclist
Membership Days Posts
And Fiona Bruce is right: these pouting paragons of perfection do make the rest of us look 'rough'.

Opinion presented as fact. Personally, I think many of these "enhanced" faces come somewhere on a scale with "Ridiculous" at one end and "Downright Ugly" at the other. But that is only *my* opinion.

If the person wearing that face is happy with it then it is not mine to comment. If more people had an attitude like mine the likes of Sarah Vile would be out of a job, which could only be a Good Thing.
By Safe_Timber_Man
Membership Days Posts
And also slagged off many women for 'having work done'. So basically, she makes snide comments about the appearance of women whether they're natural or not. I would say she needs to take a look in the mirror before sneering at the way other people look but it seems she has looked in the mirror and that's exactly why she's so unpleasant to other women.
By Safe_Timber_Man
Membership Days Posts
Vine's previous article was about how she felt pressured to have Botox. Mainly the fault of social media, obviously.

Today she urges women not to be pressured. Again, the fault of social media, obviously...

TLDR: "I don't want to fuck Micheal Gove anymore."

SARAH VINE: Women my age should not feel pressure to be sexy

Lock up your grandfathers! Dolly Parton, 74, is threatening to pose for the cover of Playboy Magazine — more than four decades since she last graced its pages. She even plans to wear the same bunny costume. 'I could probably use it,' she said. 'Boobs are still the same.'

Next up is Amanda Redman, 62, star of the BBC's New Tricks and the ITV drama The Good Karma Hospital, making an impassioned plea for more on-screen sex for the over-50s.

She adds that in Britain we view the idea of sexually confident older women as 'repulsive'. 'There's ageism involved,' she says.

And then there's Tena (as in the incontinence pads), which launched a new advertising campaign this week featuring several mature women in various stages of undress, talking openly and honestly about their own sexual desires.

'Sex is just as much fun and sensual as it ever was,' says one, caressing her own thigh as she writhes about on a bed.

'It's far less complicated: I know what I want,' says another, undressing. 'Too much?' asks a third, gazing provocatively at the camera. 'Well, it's not about you. It's about me.'

I must confess I fair spilled my glass of plonk when that one popped up on my telly. I just wasn't expecting it. But I'm clearly hopelessly out of touch. Sex and the older woman is officially a phenomenon, and I for one am not quite sure how I feel about it.

As an older woman myself (52), I suppose I ought to be all in favour. After all, for years people like me have been going on about how society sees us as invisible, so I guess I should be grateful someone's finally taking notice. I'm just not sure I want it packaged and hashtagged and served up to us in quite such a way.

In particular I find this notion that 'it's all about me' hard to process.

Hurrah for empowerment, but I suspect I am not alone among women my age in feeling that's an absurd suggestion.

Truth is, it's almost never about women. It's about the family, our partners, our children, in many cases our parents and, of course, our employers.

Indeed, many of us end up so far down our own to-do lists that the idea of seeking any form of sexual gratification, any pleasure other than simply getting through the day intact, of sinking into any arms other than the sweet embrace of sleep, becomes impossible.

By encouraging us so vehemently to embrace our sensuality, there is a risk that it becomes yet another chore to which we must attend, another hoop to jump through.

There is a fine line between empowering women and hectoring them, holding them to unreachable standards.

Or to put it another way, we don't all want — or desire — to be Playboy centrefolds at the age of 74. And we shouldn't be made to feel that is somehow a failing.

I don't doubt the good intentions. But what if you're not comfortable with your ageing body; what if you don't look at yourself in the mirror and see a glorious goddess but a baggy old bag; what if you don't find sex as pleasing as it once was?

Now your own lack of self-esteem is just something else to feel inadequate about, your lack of desire yet another example of how you're letting the side down by being insufficiently thrilled at the thought of stuffing your crinkly cleavage into some underwiring or hauling your sagging derriere into a pair of fishnet tights.

Female desire is a complex, delicate subject, bound up in many factors. It can be a painful, difficult subject for many women, especially as they grow old. It is not as simple as a well-preserved celebrity, or a glossy advert. It cannot be distilled into a slogan or a hashtag.

In this age of over-sharing, there are some conversations that should remain private. And this is one of them.
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