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:sunglasses: 54.9 % ❤ 2.5 % :thumbsup: 17.3 % 😯 0.6 % :grinning: 21 % 🧥 1.2 % 🙏 0.6 % 😟 1.2 % :cry: 0.6 %
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By oboogie
Membership Days Posts
#616736
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:15 pm
oboogie wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:35 pm
Well he's blocked me.
My condolences at this difficult time.
Thanks, *sniff* I'll try and be brave.
Schmee liked this
 
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#616752
youngian wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:14 pm
Unconscious bias is bullshit hackery and a gift to the likes of Yaxley-Lennon and Farage. He needs to stop listening to groups with agendas and prostrating himself at their feet.

Have you had any experience of this training? Its not Linda Bellos and Rick from the Young Ones telling you black bin liners are racist.
A few years ago the army ran an advert featuring an angry African man screaming at the camera. It asked how you'd react - look him in the eye, look away, try to calm him down and so on. The point being, different cultures react in different ways to gestures, the guy might be angry but not at you, and so on. If it's good enough for Our Boys...
oboogie, Samanfur, Cyclist and 1 others liked this
 
By oboogie
Membership Days Posts
#616762
I long ago came to the conclusion that many people who say racist things genuinely don't realise that they are being racist and are sincere in their horror and/or indignation when it's pointed out to them.

Do I have an unconscious bias?
How the hell would I know?
That's the thing about unconscious bias - it's unconscious.
 
By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#616766
oboogie wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:18 am
I long ago came to the conclusion that many people who say racist things genuinely don't realise that they are being racist and are sincere in their horror and/or indignation when it's pointed out to them.

Do I have an unconscious bias?
How the hell would I know?
That's the thing about unconscious bias - it's unconscious.
Have you done the training? We did it many years ago at our school. It was surprising what some people - genuinely not racist I believe - thought was acceptable. Others just denied that they were racist at all, and wouldn't engage. Yeah, right.

For me the takeaway was spending much more time talking to black students about what they wanted, which ranged from proper 'black history' (we changed the history module on the slave trade to be much less 'historical') to a room for Friday prayers.

It was very positive. Encouraged reflection.
 
By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Posts
#616768
Andy McDandy wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:17 am
youngian wrote:
Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:14 pm
Unconscious bias is bullshit hackery and a gift to the likes of Yaxley-Lennon and Farage. He needs to stop listening to groups with agendas and prostrating himself at their feet.

Have you had any experience of this training? Its not Linda Bellos and Rick from the Young Ones telling you black bin liners are racist.
A few years ago the army ran an advert featuring an angry African man screaming at the camera. It asked how you'd react - look him in the eye, look away, try to calm him down and so on. The point being, different cultures react in different ways to gestures, the guy might be angry but not at you, and so on. If it's good enough for Our Boys...
An important thing to remember about "our boys".
The "our boys" beloved of the football lads, EDL and Sun readers aren't the ones currently serving and deployed; those are softened by PC and costng us money.
The "our boys" they prefer were the ones off the leash doing a bit or "Rule 303" on the quiet.
 
By oboogie
Membership Days Posts
#616773
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:30 am
oboogie wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:18 am
I long ago came to the conclusion that many people who say racist things genuinely don't realise that they are being racist and are sincere in their horror and/or indignation when it's pointed out to them.

Do I have an unconscious bias?
How the hell would I know?
That's the thing about unconscious bias - it's unconscious.
Have you done the training? We did it many years ago at our school. It was surprising what some people - genuinely not racist I believe - thought was acceptable. Others just denied that they were racist at all, and wouldn't engage. Yeah, right.

For me the takeaway was spending much more time talking to black students about what they wanted, which ranged from proper 'black history' (we changed the history module on the slave trade to be much less 'historical') to a room for Friday prayers.

It was very positive. Encouraged reflection.
I've not done the latest unconscious bias one which Starmer's talking about but I've, of course, attended regular equality and diversity sessions. In fact I've delivered many of them myself as I was the cross-college diversity coordinator for a couple of years.
Malcolm Armsteen liked this
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#616878
oboogie wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:18 am
I long ago came to the conclusion that many people who say racist things genuinely don't realise that they are being racist and are sincere in their horror and/or indignation when it's pointed out to them.
Both my grandads (both died 20-30 years ago) would, as a result of their age and the times they grew up in, occasionally say quite obviously racist turns of phrase. I would class neither of them as racist, however - they were both kind, gentle people who would happily help anyone.

If they were alive today, I'd like to think they'd be the sort of people who'd try and get out of those habits, because in this sense I see racism being like smoking - no one intentionally wants to hurt other people, but there's a wall of ignorance to surmount. But the less normal it becomes to hear phrases and terms that have no malice attached by the vast majority of people but will be used by some to justify their entirely malice-based behaviour, the more extreme and unacceptable that behaviour becomes.
oboogie, spoonman liked this
 
By Kreuzberger
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#616885
Oh, I dunno. I grew up in an incredibly racist era > town > family. As a child, I was genuinely flabbergasted when, in Love Thy Neighbour, Bill would get one over on Eddie.
 
By KevS
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#616896
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:54 am
oboogie wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:18 am
I long ago came to the conclusion that many people who say racist things genuinely don't realise that they are being racist and are sincere in their horror and/or indignation when it's pointed out to them.
Both my grandads (both died 20-30 years ago) would, as a result of their age and the times they grew up in, occasionally say quite obviously racist turns of phrase. I would class neither of them as racist, however - they were both kind, gentle people who would happily help anyone.

If they were alive today, I'd like to think they'd be the sort of people who'd try and get out of those habits, because in this sense I see racism being like smoking - no one intentionally wants to hurt other people, but there's a wall of ignorance to surmount. But the less normal it becomes to hear phrases and terms that have no malice attached by the vast majority of people but will be used by some to justify their entirely malice-based behaviour, the more extreme and unacceptable that behaviour becomes.
Very true. In my younger formative years, so circa 1980, one of the rhymes my grandmother would recite to me was Ikey Moses, King of the Jews, which if you heard anyone recite it today, the word you would use would be "Yikes". A rhyme that had apparently been around since the Edwardian era.

And of course, this didn't mean she was a raving anti semite, she was just reciting the same rhyme to her young grandson that she probably knew from when she was the same age, which would have been about 1928 on South Tyneside.

It's also worth pointing out that I was the oldest grandchild. I don't recall her doing it to any of the others, so perhaps she did think twice. And although we're not Jewish ourselves, having the family name of Saul might have caused pause for thought...
 
By crabcakes_windermere
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#616926
oboogie wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:29 am
crabcakes_windermere wrote:
Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:54 am
no one intentionally wants to hurt other people
They bloody well do, you know. FLA and BF for a kick off.
Oh absolutely. Sorry, my poor phrasing - I meant only in the sense of people who either say things that come from less enlightened times out of habit, or people who genuinely don't realise something is offensive.
oboogie liked this
 
By Tubby Isaacs
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#616962
Looking at the staff hospital parking thing. Unless, I'm missing something I'm not that impressed with Starmer.

The government brought in free parking for staff during Covid, and fair enough. Not just a nice thing to do, but a practical anti-Covid measure- we don't want key workers piling on to buses right now.

But hospitals, we hope, will be getting back to normal- that means visitors and more outpatients. That's a lot more parking capacity needed. How on earth can there be enough parking spaces for all those people, plus enough for every member of staff to park for free? We do indeed owe a lot to NHS staff, as Starmer says. Can't we pay them all more money, not just do a favour to those who drive to work?

Free hospital parking is OK in Wales, where land is generally cheap enough in convenient locations to stick a huge car park round it. But in most of England, that's not true. You'll get into a nasty vicious circle if you encourage hospital parking. People have cars- don't use public transport- want to drive to the hospital- new hospital built out of town- people want cars to get to the hospital". That's disastrous.
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