Discussion of MailOnline's big traffic driver - celebrity stories
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By Samanfur
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#623503
I saw that that's what she said. I never said I thought that the character was trans, which is where that clarification in the last part of the sentence you quoted came from.

My point was that for someone who claims that she likes and respects trans people, she seems to have a blind spot when it comes to using an unhelpful trope to make a profit, which she has now done twice. Whether she does genuinely believe it isn't harmful is neither here nor there.

There's a large chunk of society who when they think of a trans woman, no matter how well they pass or the fact that they just want to be left alone to live their lives, can't see past the perceived carnivalesque deviance of a man in a dress. And react accordingly.

And Rowling has yet to write a transgender or transvestite character that didn't turn out to be a villain.

I'm not saying that it's malicious, just that it's there. I know that those particular tropes've been around for decades, but considering that there's a lot of misinformation floating around about the issues and it's been a particularly contentious talking point for the last several years, using that trope in the current climate was always going to cause a problem.

There're less gay panic scenarios and mocking caricature depictions of homosexuals in the media than there used to be, because gay people pushed back against them and they fell out of favour. I'm not saying I'm right, but it seems to me that trans people're in the early stages of the same process at the moment.

You're right to say that for some people, the fact that Rowling is the one doing it is going to send them screaming off the deep end regardless, and that's why it's getting all of this publicity. But all I'm saying is that as a narrative decision by someone who says that she's compassionate to trans people and cares about their problems, it comes across as lazy and unhelpful.

This doesn't mean that I'm okay with #RIPJKRowling trending, or that I think that she should be bullied or threatened.
 
By Malcolm Armsteen
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#623511
One running theme, or central plot device, in Rowling's work is the character, usually bad, who appears as someone else, be that Voldemort, Brockbank in Career of Evil, or Creed in Troubled Blood. I'm pretty certain there are other examples. She is saying that people are not always what they seem, that there are opportunities for manipulation if a character has the right skill set. Even her good characters can do this - either by potions, as in Harry Potter, or Robin Ellacott's uncanny ability to use accents to fool people.

I am genuinely interested to know where she has done this in other work in such a way as to show trans people or cross dressers in a bad light because they are trans or cross dressing. I really can't recall an example.

And as an aside - are we to stop studying Shakespeare because of Julia, Portia or Rosamund? How about Some Like it Hot, or Tootsie? Yentl or Mrs Doubtfire (actually that one should be banned).

Not all cross dressing and gender ambiguity in fiction, theatre and cinema is an attack on trans people, but the condemnation of Rowling by some (I'm looking at Pink News) means that it is often treated as such.
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#623601
Funny question this, I struggle a bit with this gender stuff, what gender do trans people get attracted to?

I mean does a trans woman (who used to be male) like men, or women if she's gay? or a trans man (ex female) like women/men, again if gay?

Or do they go for other trans people?

Sorry if I'm coming across as a bit Littlejohn btw, it's not something I've ever come across in life

Confused and looking for logic
 
By Abernathy
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#623626
mr angry manchester wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:56 pm
Funny question this, I struggle a bit with this gender stuff, what gender do trans people get attracted to?

I mean does a trans woman (who used to be male) like men, or women if she's gay? or a trans man (ex female) like women/men, again if gay?

Or do they go for other trans people?

Sorry if I'm coming across as a bit Littlejohn btw, it's not something I've ever come across in life

Confused and looking for logic
I share your confusion/lack of comprehension. You are not alone.

However, I have a feeling that the questions of gender and of sexual attraction/orientation, are entirely separate matters. Which is to say that if, as a male person, you fancied women, and then transitioned into becoming a female person, your sexual attraction to women would continue unaltered - which I dare say would make you gay.

I'm probably completely wrong, though.
 
By Samanfur
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#623627
No, you're right. If a trans man is attracted attracted to men after their transition, they identify as a gay man rather than a straight woman.

The distaff counterpart also applies.

Sorry for not answering your longer post yet, Malcolm. I'll get back to it, but the brain gremlins have been running riot today, so I haven't been online much. :(
 
By Malcolm Armsteen
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#623628
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/ ... bled-blood
JK Rowling has said that the character of Dennis Creed, the serial killer in her new novel who has provoked accusations of transphobia because he dresses up in a woman’s coat and wig, is loosely based on two real-life murderers.

Troubled Blood, in which private detectives Cormoran Strike and Robin Ellacott investigate the case of a female GP who disappeared decades earlier, was published earlier this week by Rowling, writing as Robert Galbraith. A review in the Telegraph prompted widespread attacks on the author, including a Twitter hashtag #RIPJKRowling, after it described one of the possible suspects in the disappearance of the GP, Dennis Creed, as a “transvestite serial killer”, asking “what critics of Rowling’s stance on trans issues will make of a book whose moral seems to be: never trust a man in a dress”. Others hit back, with Nick Cohen suggesting the Telegraph review misrepresented a novel in which “transvestism barely features”.
Now having finished it I would say that transvestism is entirely absent from the book. The Telegraph being it's usual shitty self to denigrate a famous left-winger and philanthropist.
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#623629
Samanfur wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:47 pm
No, you're right. If a trans man is attracted attracted to men after their transition, they identify as a gay man rather than a straight woman.

The distaff counterpart also applies.

Sorry for not answering your longer post yet, Malcolm. I'll get back to it, but the brain gremlins have been running riot today, so I haven't been online much. :(
Surely, if the person was male, attracted to other males, before changing, he was gay. He then transfers into a woman, sexual attraction remains unaltered, so is now a woman attracted to males, so, has, presumably changed from gay man to straight woman?

This whole area pecks my head in a bit and I tend not to go there
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#623634
I've got to 60 without having to bother about this stuff so I think I'll leave it alone!

There's a similar precedent in my family, my gran got to the age of 91 before she knew what a lesbian was. She found out via the News of the World. At our house one sunday in about 1975 she suddenly addressed my Dad with "Jack, what's a lesbian?" Mum went red, I started laughing, Dad replied with "nowt you need to bother about" and the matter rested.

A couple of weeks later, she asked again "it were in 't paper again about em, what are they?"

This time he enlightened her

The response was "the mucky buggers!"
 
By The Weeping Angel
Membership Days Posts
#623636
Now having finished it I would say that transvestism is entirely absent from the book. The Telegraph being it's usual shitty self to denigrate a famous left-winger and philanthropist.
They were stoking a culture war for clicks. Then they can play their look at these rotten lefties trying to shout people down line.

 
By spoonman
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#623644
The Telegraph is now essentially the English print equivalent of Fox News and should be treated as such. A great shame to see a former newspaper or record go down what the Germans call "the black channel" on the whims of a set of tax-dodging thin skinned bastard brothers.
 
By Kreuzberger
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#623652
spoonman wrote:
Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:28 pm
The Telegraph is now essentially the English print equivalent of Fox News and should be treated as such. A great shame to see a former newspaper or record go down what the Germans call "the black channel" on the whims of a set of tax-dodging thin skinned bastard brothers.
The Telegraph has always been a fucking toilet of truth but was blessed with impeccable table manners. That's how they got away with being this self-appointed dispensary of the "serious analysis" which Martha Kearney anachronistically delivers to a grateful nation at 07:10 of a misty morn. Noblesse oblige, and all that.

To all intents and purposes, it is the original media bubble. The establishment talking to itself and just 300,000 furious people (0.05% of the population) working themselves in to a lather over a 20-year old picture of Alison Person's décolletage.
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