Discussion of the UK Government
:sunglasses: 44.4 % ❤ 2.2 % :thumbsup: 13.4 % 😯 4.9 % :grinning: 24.1 % 🧥 1.4 % 🙏 2.2 % 😟 0.8 % :cry: 6 % :shit: 0.5 %
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By davidjay
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#623736
I'm reminded of a passage in one of the Flashman books, which was along the lines of "Whenever civilisation talks to the native it's always in the shape of the most blockheaded idiot available." I know that the Cummings government is hardly civilisation but that's what how think of themselves and anyway, the principle stands.
 
By Bones McCoy
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#623819
Malcolm Armsteen wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:50 pm
Is he:

a) thick
b) dishonest
c) thick and dishonest?
I'll have a C Bob, with a side order of "and an ugly cunt to boot".
 
By Bones McCoy
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#623823
This is an area where the Tories - by schmoozing almost exclusively with the President - misjudge the U.S.A.

They assume the U.S.A. government is just another bunch of right leaning nutters like themselves.
The U.S.A. actually has some rather weird sympathy for the underdog baked in.
This derives partly from domestic Hyphen-American lobbies, but there are two other influences that the Tories would probably never understand.

The Tory mind sees foreign relations through the lens of Empire.
America (despite many invasions) has far more influence through backing client politicians, or enforcing international treaties.
This puts them on-board with 'legal entities' like the Irish Republic or Israel as opposed to pariah states (fill in the blanks).

The other one if their national creation myth.
They are very quick to spot King George throwing his weight about - coming to take our guns.
They'll dig out a piccolo and a tricorne at the drop of a hat ate perceived nouveau-imperianism.
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#623980
It wouldn't be a bad thing for Labour to take over nationalism, but not the shit side of it, like flag waving and our boys, but the positive side, calling out shite like this, asking why the Dutch and Germans or whoever owns the railways, why Saudis own half of London and why we don't make anything any more
 
By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#623981
mr angry manchester wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:50 pm
It wouldn't be a bad thing for Labour to take over nationalism, but not the shit side of it, like flag waving and our boys, but the positive side, calling out shite like this, asking why the Dutch and Germans or whoever owns the railways, why Saudis own half of London and why we don't make anything any more
Billy Bragg is a pretty good example of somebody on the left who has Englishness covered without turning into an arse.

I'm sure you'll now find a counter-example or two.
 
By Samanfur
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#623988
mr angry manchester wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:50 pm
It wouldn't be a bad thing for Labour to take over nationalism, but not the shit side of it, like flag waving and our boys, but the positive side, calling out shite like this, asking why the Dutch and Germans or whoever owns the railways, why Saudis own half of London and why we don't make anything any more
That. Definitely that.

I caught some of a Policy Exchange webinar from the virtual Labour conference earlier, on how to win back the Red Wall. I say "some", because I decided to do something else after two out of four of the panelists reckoned that people from Red Wall seats reckoned that Labour wasn't patriotic enough, so we needed to be more patriotic.

What "patriotic" meant was never said, but the words "social conservative" were, so I assume it meant what The Sun says it does.

Also, we had to take absolutely all of the blame that people who didn't think that Labour politicians should eat quinoa (yes, it was mentioned by name) voted Tory because "Boris gave them hope".

That and free unicorns with every ballot paper. Neither of which you can pay your rent or feed your family with.

I'm not defending Corbyn or saying that the GE campaign couldn't have been done better - that it could've been is a point I'll come to. But they were given a costed manifesto, full of things that the government is hoping nobody'll notice it's suddenly decided it can afford to do a few months later, and the Murdoch press now thinks is a brilliant idea when Tories have it - and swathes of them openly admitted that they couldn't care less because they "just wanted to get Brexit done" (TM my mother).

One of the pivotal moments the rot set into recent UK political discourse for me was when Gordon Brown was publicly pilloried for calling a bigot a bigot because it hurt bigots' feelings. My opinions on the idea that you can't be authentically working class if you're not uneducated and hateful are a matter of public record around here.

I'm not saying that I'm all for being ideologically pure, and not caring if the Tories burn the country down around us as long as we stay that way - that's not something we can afford - but Labour's never been about a race to the bottom.

If we go racing off to the right to chase people for whom that's a deal breaker, all we do is put a cigarette paper between ourselves and the Lib Dems or ourselves and the Tories. And if you can't tell the difference between us and them, then what's the point?

In other words, I find a bitter irony in people complaining that we should move to be more like other parties purely to placate people who complain that "politicians are all the same".

As I was saying to my CLP during the last GE campaign: we needed to be explaining on the doorstep why we're doing what we're doing - and why there's nothing un-patriotic about it - and how it'll improve people's lives in ways they understand, rather than letting the Tories dictate the narrative.
By mr angry manchester
Membership Days Posts
#623994
When you think about it, the Tories are unpatriotic as all they have done for the past 30 odd years is to sell off national assets and British institutions on the cheap to foreign corporation s, then wrap themselves in the flag.
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