[youngian]

The social side of Thatcherism was reactionary bollocks that wrote itself, but the economic side of it had to be planned and argued for in a serious way in the seventies and early 80s. Redwood was involved closely with that, and I don't believe the people who did that were stupid any more than I believe Mrs Thatcher was stupid.

Global free market liberalism and nationalism were always contradictory. But not for Redwood and Thatcher who harked after a Victorian era when Britain was the workshop of the world and made the international trading rules. Not sitting around a table with Johnny Foreigner to have them ‘imposed’ upon us. Redwood is in shock as to the limits of British sovereignty but he’d rather be Castro than Milton Friedman in order to assert it in its purist possible form.

[The Red Arrow]

On a day of astounding political ineptitude and incompetence, perhaps this thread best sums up the sorry state of this backward nation and those who would run it. Coburn's facial expressions screaming the thoughts of generations coming to realise the futility of the ballot box as a means of change.

[mr angry manchester]

The thing is that most people only get simple messages. The left always fails to grasp this, and they bombard people with detailed manifestos, emphasising diversity and so on and so forth. Unfortunately, the right does understand this and they just repeat, ad nauseam, shit like "benefits=lazy bastards" until it becomes accepted.

The media plays a huge part, all this shite on Channel 5 about Benefits by the sea and other rubbish. If, instead, they started on rich tax evasion, that would have the same effect, but they don't.

[Andy McDandy]

I think Sayeeda Warsi hit upon it on her recent appearance on HIGNFY. Show someone a video of, say, Sunak's rise to power, and a lot of people will say to their kids "Look at him, if he can do it, so can you!".

Thing is, people like being rich. And if not rich, then they'll settle for relatively richer than their neighbours. Tell people that they are, as a society, better off than 50 years ago when they had rickets but no shoes, and you'll face a load of nostalgic crap about the good old days when you didn't have much but you had eachother and wasn't everyone happy running around barefoot. Whack people with a pay cut and they'll swallow it, provided the twat next door is getting hit harder than you.

People will campaign for a better, fairer, society when they can see a distinct personal advantage. That's what Labour need to do - make the fight your fight. Otherwise it'll be like on North-West Tonight when they interviewed women in Manchester about the 100th anniversary of women's suffrage: "Yeah, s'pose. Don't really care."

[Boiler]

One from Joshua Rozenberg:

https://rozenberg.substack.com/p/judge- ... terference

“It is all the more regrettable when representatives of the legislature, writing as such on House of Commons notepaper, seek to influence a judge in a private letter and do so without regard for the separation of powers or the independence of the judiciary,” said the reply from Ben Yallop, the private secretary to the lord chief justice.

[davidjay]

I think Sayeeda Warsi hit upon it on her recent appearance on HIGNFY. Show someone a video of, say, Sunak's rise to power, and a lot of people will say to their kids "Look at him, if he can do it, so can you!".

Thing is, people like being rich. And if not rich, then they'll settle for relatively richer than their neighbours. Tell people that they are, as a society, better off than 50 years ago when they had rickets but no shoes, and you'll face a load of nostalgic crap about the good old days when you didn't have much but you had eachother and wasn't everyone happy running around barefoot. Whack people with a pay cut and they'll swallow it, provided the twat next door is getting hit harder than you.

People will campaign for a better, fairer, society when they can see a distinct personal advantage. That's what Labour need to do - make the fight your fight. Otherwise it'll be like on North-West Tonight when they interviewed women in Manchester about the 100th anniversary of women's suffrage: "Yeah, s'pose. Don't really care."

This was said on here previously - post WWII, how much working class solidarity has there really been? How much of the struggle to improve conditions for ordinary people has been about building the new Jerusalem, and how much has been about being a few quid better off yourself, and too bad if next door loses his job or has to wait an extra month for his operation?

[youngian]

The thing is that most people only get simple messages. The left always fails to grasp this, and they bombard people with detailed manifestos, emphasising diversity and so on and so forth.

Lenin went far on ‘peace, bread and land.’ The left were good at three word slogans on the 80s; ‘Jobs not bombs,’ ‘coal not dole.’ Fuck all good it did them.

[davidjay]

The thing is that most people only get simple messages. The left always fails to grasp this, and they bombard people with detailed manifestos, emphasising diversity and so on and so forth.

Lenin went far on ‘peace, bread and land.’ The left were good at three word slogans on the 80s; ‘Jobs not bombs,’ ‘coal not dole.’ Fuck all good it did them.

Education, education, education was a winner. And to be fair, For the Many resonated in 2017.

[Kreuzberger]

Regardless, I expect them to be campaigning in slogans but the business of government needs adult-level communications. (I can't believe that I am needing to write this, but that is where we are.)

[Tubby Isaacs]

It's like watching some over-confident tail end slogger, a shot a ball from Redwood at the moment. Except that a tail end slogger might get a couple of shots away over the infielders. Redwood hits every ball straight up in the air to be pouched by the keeper.

[Bones McCoy]

OK Own up:

This is getting a bit fishy, John, don’t you think?
We should put the EU in their plaice.
Cod knows what they’re playing at.
I’m sick to the gills with it.
We shall not flounder!

[The Red Arrow]

Pink Floyd fan - that's me off the hook.

[mr angry manchester]

Regardless, I expect them to be campaigning in slogans but the business of government needs adult-level communications. (I can't believe that I am needing to write this, but that is where we are.)

In an ideal world, yes. However we don't live in an ideal world, we live in a world inhabited by people like Stephen Lee. (Moron I was at junior school with who I had pretty much forgotten about but became reacquainted with about 5 years ago on a Facebook group. He uses it as a platform for the most ridiculous gammon -ish shit)

[oboogie]

[The Red Arrow]

He's good, isn't he? Reminds me of our old chum Beau of the Fifth Column.