Area for all other political discussion
:sunglasses: 42.2 % ❤ 3.5 % :thumbsup: 7.9 % 😯 3.8 % :grinning: 35.4 % 🧥 1.4 % 🙏 0.9 % 😟 1.9 % :cry: 2.2 % :shit: 0.6 %
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By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#631674
Puns aside, how thick are these fuckers? This was obviously on the cards, the EU protected them rather than hindered them, and everything that was explained to them was project fear.

They brought it on themselves. They need to be left to dangle.
 
By Andy McDandy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#631676
I think that for many, it's something like this.

The last 45 years or so have seen massive social and economic change. That neatly coincides with our membership of the CM/EEC/EU. For certain, some people have prospered and others haven't. People are looking for someone to blame, and Europe is the obvious candidate. A lot of people feel closer - spiritually rather than geographically - to Australia, New Zealand and the USA than they do to France, Belgium, or the rest of the continent.

So, who to blame for your woes? Europe, painted in the media as "over there", is the obvious choice. After all, you don't really know how the EU works, or who your local MEP is (unless it's someone like Farage, elected to "send a message"). In contrast, your MP is a different kettle of fish. They opened your village fete. They have a column in the local paper to rage about PC gone mad. You feel a connection to them. You'd much prefer to think that it's the big inscrutable organisation "over there" and staffed by ze Jairmans and a load of fat Belgians who never properly said thankyou in 1945 that's responsible for your woes than that nice guy who did a photo op in the local park and went on that news quiz.

Of course, this fails to take into account that while Britain might have been the sick man of Europe in 1972, it certainly didn't feel like it. We didn't want their fancy foreign muck, and we had the Irish - thick, backward Paddies - to push around. Nowadays, you see an Irish person on TV and they're likely the smartest person in the room. We like the food, the culture, the fashion. But we resent not being top dog in our own kennel any more. Even if that kennel was falling apart.

The comedian Richard Herring once did a routine called "Men are from Britain, women are from Europe (and gay men are from Ireland)", which explains the relationship between the UK and EU in similar terms, with references to the glass floor situation (the basic level of privilege a straight white man holds - or held until recently - regardless of personal circumstances, over women and people from minority groups) and social changes over, coincidentally, the time we've been part of Europe in all its forms. Worth looking up.
davidjay liked this
 
By Malcolm Armsteen
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#631677
From my experience. Over the past 40 years there has been a reduction in semi-skilled and unskilled labour. People who were of low cognitive ability, or who didn't see the point of education, skills or training, or who were just too fucking idle to work at school found themselves at a serious disadvantage. Especially when more skilled and harder-working people from abroad came to take what jobs there were.

Unable to blame themselves and looking for scapegoats they were at the mercy of populists like Fargle.
Boiler liked this
 
By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#631691
One of the great challenges for modern politicians.
I would suggest a particular challenge for the "left" because the "traditional right" consider this social darwinism in action for the "unconstitutional right" see streetfight fodder.

What do we do with the folks of low congitive ability, and those other categories who present similar employability issues?
Does our vision of a green and pleasant land include them, or must we banish them to the workhouse to create a society for beautiful people only?

It isn't an exclusively leftist problem, but I've not heard much of a solution from any point on the political spectrum.
* Some say make exceptions to the minimum wage for those of low employability (and other race to the bottom solutions).
* Some propose a national living wage, but struggle to put much detail on the proposal.
* Some suggest compulsory "make work" schemes to boost their "self esteem".

I sense a feeling of despair among many of our politicians, since we have passed the point where "a little help" is enough.
The poor, of all types, face massive structural problems around accommodation and travel costs, that a 20 quid a day job sweeping up little won't resolve.

I'd love to post a succinct conclusion, but I've no ideas either.
 
By Bones McCoy
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
#631709
You can easily have multiple threads of feeling on a subject.

1. Yes the world has changed and many people are left behind. I suspect this isn't new, but I suspect the proportions involved are.
2. You can also feel the having a sizeable pool of gullible types in the electorate is a severe drag-anchor on our democratic process.
3. A lot of the gobby "You lost - get over it" are likely to be the ever present activists, not the sweet little granny who 'hasn't coped since we got a 6th TV channel'.

As an example of the latter, one facebook group I follow - it's a comedy group - has a constant undercurrent of Gammony resentment.
Most of it form one guy who posts 5 or 6 times a day, and occasionally enlists a couple of his golf mates.
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