Archive of topics from before June 2012. PM a mod to get one reopened.
By tc-obo
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
That's utterly bizarre.

One point that's worth picking up on, cause it's often repeated, is the supposed similarities between the EU constitution and the constitution of [insert authoritarian state here], because it's often pretty misleading, not least because a lot of those constitutions mentioned can be very progressive and not at all similar to reality. For example, in the Constitution of North Korea, the following articles appear:

Article 64. The State shall effectively guarantee genuine democratic rights and liberties as well as the material and cultural well-being of all its citizens. In the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea the rights and freedom of citizens shall be amplified with the consolidation and development of the socialist system.

Article 65. Citizens enjoy equal rights in all spheres of State and public activity.

Article 66. All citizens who have reached the age of 17 have the right to elect and to be elected, irrespective of sex, race, occupation, length of residence, property status, education, party affiliation, political views or religion. Citizens serving in the armed forces also have the right to elect and to be elected. A person who has been disenfranchised by a Court decision and a person legally certified insane do not have the right to elect or to be elected.

Article 67. Citizens are guaranteed freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, demonstration and association. The State shall guarantee conditions for the free activity of democratic political parties and social organizations.

Whilst you can see the ways in which the state legitimises its rule constitutionally (social harmony etc etc), it's still important to note that constitutions are not always the best guide to how a nation behaves. More to the point, of course, the EU constitution is not at all like the constitution of most countries, especially not the Soviet union as in fact the EU document outlines precisely a neoliberal guideline for European economics.
By ManicMiner
Membership Days Posts
Another comments on that article:


18.08.09, 12:05pm

Surprise, comment below June this year. You don't need to be a Fortune Teller, Palm Reader or even read the Crystal Ball to know this government are "Economical With The Truth" fact these Nu-Labour Androids are programmed on media training' sessions at a cost of £3,000 a time....brainwashed in "how NOT to answer questions that contain any element of truth.

Having said that....anyone like to forecast Nu-Labour result at the next general election, 10, 18, 20 years in the wilderness.

As for Mandelson renouncing the dubious title of "Lord"....forget it, no way is he going to be heading up a government heading for complete annihilation at the ballot box, he doesn't need a Tarot Reading to know that.

Quote: “Unemployment has soared to a 12-year high of more than 2.2 million after a record number of people lost their jobs in recent months, gloomy new figures showed today".

17.06.09, 11:44am

"Government Statistics" unemployment in the UK - is second to none, MP's expenses dominate the land of Fairy Tales.

If you had the time to delve into the actual true figures of the "True Level Of Unemployment" in the UK you'd receive some sort of award for ending up as the oldest person on the planet......the figures are utter creative B-U-LL-S-H-I-T.

Don't believe me?.....lunch times & tea breaks, take a look at our further education establishments, schools & uni's, government training etc, the corridors & catering rooms are choc-a-block with people not counted as unemployed. Sept 2007 people on "Jobseeker's Allowance" 835,000...what is it to-day?

Unemployed whose partner is working, means tested....excluded.
Under 18 excluded...Over 55 often excluded.
People actively seeking work.....excluded.
Sickness/Disability Benefit....excluded.
Part Time worker....can't get a job....excluded.
The methods used to hide unemployed figures are endless.

Any excuse or reason to disguise the true figures is manipulated to the maximum extent possible, creating a situation where it is impossible to show true figures of unemployment.....all whilst these MP charlatans are living the life of luxury provided by the ALL the people of the UK, employed/unemployed/pensioners/sick..lame...& lazy via indirect hidden tax's.
By ManicMiner
Membership Days Posts
#96147 ... -GMTV-sofa


Which has this comment:


05.05.10, 9:13am

A message from a real conservative:

Dear Fellow Conservatives,

Many of you are going to hate me for what I am about to say. I regret this. Perhaps the fact that I am going to do it anyway will convince some of you that I am deadly serious, and prefer unpopularity to doing the wrong thing. It is one of the most important and urgent tasks I have ever undertaken.

The country had gone into a sort of craze, and believed what it wanted to believe. This time, I think and hope that what I say might actually have some effect on an unusually close Election. And it is this. Please do not vote Tory. It will have the opposite result to the one you intend. I don’t care who else you vote for (apart from the BNP, which no decent person can support).But I beg and plead with you not to fall for the shimmering, greasy, cynical fraud which is the Cameron project.

You will hate yourself for it in time if you do.
The obvious thing is not necessarily the right one. A little knowledge can save us from making bad mistakes. If you feed a big meal to a starving man, which might seem the kind thing to do, you are likely to kill him. Aeroplanes take off into the wind, not, as might seem more sensible, with the wind behind them. If your car engine overheats, you should turn the heater up, not down.

It’s the same here. You may want to ‘Get Gordon Brown out’. So do I. And he’s done for anyway.
But do you really want to put in a man who agrees with Gordon Brown on almost every major issue, and is so confident of his liberalism that he doesn’t even try to keep it secret?

No muttered remarks in the car about ‘bigotry’ for him. He has said openly that he regards the conservative-minded people of this country as ‘fruitcakes and closet racists’ – and nobody made him apologise for it afterwards.

If you now endorse the Cameron Tory Party, you will destroy all real hope of change for the better. I assume here that my readers mostly agree with me about what this country needs. It needs its independence back, so it can make its own laws and control its own coasts and territorial seas, its armed forces, its foreign policy – like a proper nation.
It needs to regain control of its borders and end the mass immigration which is neither necessary nor good.

- It needs to stop the destruction of the married family and the undermining of adult authority. It needs to use the law to restrain the grotesque abuse of alcohol and the dangerous spread of drugs. It needs to restore the idea that crime and disorder should be prevented by a police force patrolling on foot – and where that fails, the criminals should be punished in austere and ­disciplined prisons.
- It needs schools which teach proper subjects in orderly and peaceful classrooms.
- It needs to shrink and reform a grotesque, unjust welfare state which rewards sloth and neglects the truly poor.
- It needs – urgently – to defeat the politically correct fundamentalist zealots, who sneer ‘Bigot!’ at anyone who dares defend the reasonable beliefs and opinions which were normal a generation ago.

Some of you may also agree with me that it needs to reassert its debt and its allegiance to the Christian religion, on which our unique civilization of orderly freedom is based.

David Cameron pretends skilfully to agree with these positions because he knows that is what you think.
But he does not really agree with you or me. He is himself deeply politically correct (he has just sacked a parliamentary candidate for having the ‘wrong’ opinions about homo­sexuality, a fact a grovelling media have not publicised).

His supposed ‘Euroscepticism’ is bluster which collapses when it comes into contact with reality, as over the Lisbon Treaty. On Thursday night he ‘guaranteed’ he wouldn’t enter the Euro. He once also ‘guaranteed’ a referendum on Lisbon, a commitment he slithered out of as soon as it became difficult.

These ‘guarantees’ fly from his lips whenever he needs to please a crowd, but they are less valuable than Greek Junk Bonds.

His alleged support for marriage (dragged out of him under pressure) is a token and a gimmick, as convincing and genuine as a supermarket price-cut.

His pose as the foe of immigration is profoundly dishonest. He knows that, as long as we stay inside the EU, much immigration to this country is beyond his power to control.

Readers of this column over the past few years will have seen the many detailed instances of Mr Cameron’s duplicity that I have provided. And, because there is not space for them all here, I have compiled a full charge sheet against Mr Cameron and his party, in which I show his true aims and opinions, and those of his colleagues.

It can be found on the web at

He is truly what he once said he was – the Heir to Blair. If he wins, he will – as the first Tory leader to win an Election in 18 years – have the power to crush all his critics in the Tory Party. He will be able to say that political correctness, green zealotry, a pro-EU position and a willingness to spend as much as Labour on the NHS have won the day.
He will claim (falsely) that ‘Right-wing’ policies lost the last three Elections.

Those Tory MPs who agree with you and me will be cowed and silenced for good. The power will lie with the A-list smart set, modish, rich metropolitan liberals hungry for office at all costs who would have been (and who in the case of one of the older ones actually was) in New Labour 13 years ago.

And then where will you have to turn for help as the PC, pro-EU bulldozer trundles across our landscape destroying what is good and familiar and replacing it with a country whose inhabi­tants increasingly cannot recognize it as their own?

The Liberal Democrats? They agree with David. The Labour Party under exciting, new, Blairite Mr Miliband, heir to a Marxist dynasty? He agrees with David, too. You will look from bench to bench in the House of Commons and see nothing but the people whose ideas have wrecked a great country in half a century, and who still won’t admit they’re wrong.

This system is only propped up by state funding and dodgy millionaires. The surge to the Liberal Democrats – because of who they are not rather than because of what they are – shows a great hunger for something genuinely different.

The expenses scandal has broken many old allegiances for good. That process would actually be ended by the election of a Tory government, committed to the policies of New Labour and headed by a man who happens to be one of the greediest expense claimers of all, and who made you pay the mortgage interest on a large country house he didn’t really need.

We have the power to cast aside the discredited parties and politicians who have so utterly let us down and to make new ones which actually speak for us, and which do not despise us as fruitcakes or bigots.

Five years from now we could throw the liberal elite into the sea, if we tried. But the first stage in that rebellion must be the failure of David Cameron to rescue the wretched anti-British Blair project and wrap it in a blue dress.

Best wishes

Peter Hitchens - Mail on Sunday (2nd May 2010)
By Esqui
Membership Days Membership Days Posts
Express in balanced question shocker!!


So out they come...
It is not our speech that is curtailed so much as our right to British culture.
One third of people living in London were not born in Britain - ONE THIRD !
British culture may remain in little pockets around our land but the cities are now in the grip of great cultural change.

Western civilisation has been a millenium in the making but as in most civilisations the breaking is over a generation. The impact of the great Western social injustice fighters are losing their grip in the British mindset that now includes those that think it's OK to traffic children. or to kill baby girls, or to circumcise baby girls, or to subdue them and control them. Many come from a culture where knives are in common use on the streets, where "honour" killings are common place.
I could go on but wont for it saddens me too much.

I know one thing. We must fight and stand up for the right to move forward and fight to never move backward.

Ref the bolded part: in 2001, 5.2m of the 7.1m citizens of London were born in the UK. I highly doubt that it has changed all that much in the past decade.

Also, this is just..,.what?
socially speech
socially unacceptable.....yes what did she have to say on poppy burning?

Sayeeda Warsi has warned the Muslim community to stand guard against the divisive designs of far right British National Party and the English Defence League and thwart their aims. Speaking at a dinner hosted by Lord Altaf Sheikh, Chairman, Conservative Muslim Forum, to celebrate Eid-ul-Azha at Westminster House here last night, she said that the Muslim community not only in the United Kingdom but across Europe face the rising level of anti-Islamic sentiments.

This, she added, was evident from the recent elections in many European countries where several parties fielded candidates not on the basis of race or immigration but specifically on the basis of Islam.

“And if you look at the far right in this country whether it is the British National Party or English Defence League, they are very clearly targeting the British Muslim community. And what is quite worrying they are now beginning to form small groups of minority groups within the EDL to achieve their objectives of creating divisions within the Muslim community.”

She called on the Muslim leaders to wake up and deal with these issues seriously and must not allow these extreme parties from attaining their nefarious goals.

Baroness Warsi praised the contributions of Muslim community and said that the community has achieved much in the British politics. She referred to the last May Parliamentary elections and said the representation of the Muslim community has doubled with the election of first Muslim women Mps and also election of first Conservative Muslim parliamentarians and the increase in the number of Muslim peers in the House of Lords.

Now let's unravel this dialogue - what is she actually saying. " she said that the Muslim community not only in the United Kingdom but across Europe face the rising level of anti-Islamic sentiments."By using this approach Warsi is actually calling for the Islamic Ummah in the UK to unite against any kind of movement that threatens their progress towards an Islamic state in the UK ,and then when violence does erupt she will be able to say that it is the divisive EDL and BNP tactics that have made Muslims defend themselves, she is setting up the EDL and BNP to take the rap

I have no idea what this guy is on about

Well you voted for it !

If you wanted to change why didn't you vote for a party that put the British first ?

Sadly, I know exactly what this guy is on about
By Fozzy
Membership Days Posts
I do wish they could get it through their thick heads that being born abroad doesn't automatically make someone an immigrant. We have a colonial past, ffs, lots of white Anglo Saxon protestants were born abroad because their parents were posted there - to say nothing of the people whose parents worked abroad, were in the armed or diplomatic services, or simply mistimed their holidays.
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