Cyclist wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:30 pm @Abernathy
Firstly, I am not including JK Rowling, or others like her, in the TERF category. She has demonstrated time and again that she is not transphobic.
We’re in agreement, then, that Rowling’s views are entirely reasonable. I’m still slightly bewildered at the amount of vitriol that she has received for those rather modest, and clearly expressed views.
I am referring to the likes of Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull AKA Posie Parker
https://uk.linkedin.com/in/kellie-jay-k ... l-07011451
Harry Miller, the now ex-copper and EDL supporter who was sacked for posting "gender critical" bollocks, and tweeting "This country needs Tommy Robinson"
Kate Scottow, who ran a campaign of abuse and harassment against a Trans woman
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ad ... /3421.html
And other charming individuals of their ilk.
Not much info on those links, other than Ms Scottow’s successful appeal judgement. Other than that, they all seem to be people complaining that their right to free speech has been unfairly impinged on by police warning them about supposedly inflammatory remarks made online. Which makes me immediately suspicious (see “golliwogs” passim as well as your mention of the EDF). But I think I need to find out more about what these individuals are supposed to have said before forming a definite opinion. I’m otherwise more than happy to accept your assertion that there are thoroughly nasty and vindictive individuals involved in passing offensive “opinions” about trans people, since there is such a proliferation of such individuals opining offensively and counter to decent, progressive thinking on all kinds of other matters.
Right. Now for your questions.I do not doubt that they are, if they are the sort of hateful individuals that you say they are. I need to ask again, though, what is their motivation for doing this ?
I know the fear of attack by male pervs is real, and I'm not dismissing it. But, the haters are stoking up this fear of something which statistically is extremely unlikely to happen and making it a big issue, simply to confuse the issues and generate hate against their target group.
It is a side-issueI don’t think it is. However statistically remote it might be, and whatever the “haters”may do to play it up, it is, in my view, a legitimate issue of concern in connection with the proposals for changes in the law around gender self-declaration.
and, I repeat, extremely rare. It doesn't mean it should be ignored, but it really shouldn't have the prominence the haters give it.
I agree on both counts. But it is nevertheless an entirely legitimate concern. As Malcolm says, the law needs to cover all of the bases.
Women are statistically in more danger of being attacked by their own partner in their own home than by a strange man in a leisure centre changing room. I cannot stress this enough, if it really is such a big issue, why does it happen so rarely?Well, it’s an issue because it is linked to the proposals around changes to the law concerning self gender declaration, regardless of rarely it occurs. The legitimate concern is, I’d suggest, that the legal changes could lead to an increase in the incidence of such assaults.
I know many cyclists (me included) who have been told by non-cyclists that it is too dangerous to ride on the road, and if you do, an untimely death is inevitable.Well, again, you know that it isn’t true that if you cycle on the road an untimely death is likely to befall you, but that does not stop some people from having concerns that remain legitimate, regardless of how unlikely it is, as an experienced cyclist, in your view.
Actual danger Vs perceived danger is a whole fascinating topic in itself.Perhaps, but I might gently suggest that in the context of this particular discussion, it isn’t at all relevant.
Maybe I should have said lesbian attacks are perceived to be less of a danger than attacks by men, even though they are less rare than most people (me included) realise, though still not an everyday thing. I'm going on my admittedly limited knowledge of women, but the ones I have talked to say they feel less uncomfortable undressed around strange women than they do dressed around strange men. It's this perception of danger thing again.
Maybe bringing Niemoller into it on this side of the Atlantic is a bit over-dramatic, but when you see some of the people British TERFs have shared platforms with, and are accepting funds from, you have to wonder.
It may just be part of a continuum of irrational hatred, encompassing not just transphobia, but homophobia, racism, anti-vax, and climate change. You can add Brexit mania into the mix on this side of the pond.
Right. Now I'm going to indulge in a bit of life, and then plunge into a thread currently 55 pages long, each page containing 25 looong posts, to find the relevant links to American far right groups and British transphobes. I'm just going outside. I may be some time.Looking forward to your report back.