:sunglasses: 33.3 % :laughing: 33.3 % :cry: 33.3 %
User avatar
By Boiler
#1889
The Weeping Angel wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:50 am Simply waiting for their fall won't do it.
In one.

How many of us on here sat waiting for Trump to fall?

Was McDonnell right to say that the Labour candidate was sent in "naked of policies"? Because I have to say, a party that wants to be seen as a government in waiting needs those and I'm struggling to think of any.

Help me out here.
User avatar
By Malcolm Armsteen
#1890
The Weeping Angel wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:12 am
Malcolm Armsteen wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:53 am
The Weeping Angel wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:48 am

But what about elsewhere Dudley, Sunderland, Harlow, Redditch and other councils yet to declare what does that say about us?
What am I supposed to say? That low educational levels doesn't matter?
Blaming the electorate never works.
The old cliché. It doesn't. But understanding the electorate works every time.

We had a saying in teaching: teach the class that you've got, not the one you want.
User avatar
By Malcolm Armsteen
#1892
Partly true.

But unavoidable. There are no credible Brexit voices in Labour, because it's socially destructive, economically insane and politically disastrous.

Besides which - old question - do we campaign on what we think will get us votes, or what we believe is right?
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User avatar
By The Weeping Angel
#1893
Malcolm Armsteen wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:24 am Partly true.

But unavoidable. There are no credible Brexit voices in Labour, because it's socially destructive, economically insane and politically disastrous.

Besides which - old question - do we campaign on what we think will get us votes, or what we believe is right?
Well her argument is Labour should have gone for Lisa Nandy as she accepted Brexit.
User avatar
By Crabcakes
#1894
Boiler wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:39 am Luck had nothing to do with the vaccine rollout. It was planned properly and organised well. Kate Bingham deserves praise for it.
Luck did play a big part:
1. The dosing gap gamble was based on evidence from other vaccines, but it could have backfired and not been as effective or supply issues could have meant 2nd jab supplies were low, leaving the population half protected
2. an early spring could have seen the population out and about much earlier (even without pubs reopening). The cold weather stretching out to now means fewer people socialising still, so more people can be jabbed
3. Variants have (so far) still been effectively stopped by the existing vaccines
4. The effectiveness of the vaccines in preventing transmission has been better that expected
5. There could have been a much higher level of vaccine rejection because of the (utterly miniscule) blood clotting issue
6. Johnson could have subcontracted rollout, so it could have ended up like track & trace (which in itself shows he - or someone - knew this was their real way out so they couldn't risk fucking it up, even though there would have been serious money to make)

Seriously, there were some very lucky breaks for them.
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User avatar
By Crabcakes
#1895
The Weeping Angel wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:50 am
Simply waiting for their fall won't do it.
I didn't say it would. I'm saying there are unique circumstances here that won't be in play in future. It's still entirely possible to fuck up and there's absolutely a ton of work to do, but Johnson not having a massive contextual headstart will be welcome.

Trump didn't fall, right up until he did. Now he's a pathetic figure shambling round Mar a Lago, still banging on about stolen elections, and Biden is pushing through a remarkably progressive agenda that is hugely popular with his base, independents and even a significant chunk of Republicans. Rudy is looking at some serious jail time, and Trump himself is doubtless the main target of a number of investigations as well as facing looming bankruptcy from huge debts coming due. Would a big "A Few Good Men" moment with Trump have been nice? Sure. Am I happy though as he's not in office, his demands for loyalty are splitting the Republicans, and he's still very, very likely to see some court time in the near future? Absolutely.

Crushing your opponents is great if it happens. Stopping your opponents crushing people who can't help themselves is far, far more important though.
By Youngian
#1900
Malcolm Armsteen wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:11 am
Boiler wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:56 am
Malcolm Armsteen wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 8:53 am What am I supposed to say? That low educational levels doesn't matter?
Does blaming the electorate help, though? I seem to recall an awful lot of that went on in the Corbyn years.
I'm not blaming them, I'm trying to explain why our message isn't getting through in the face of what is a superficially successful pandemic response by the Tories.
Johnson makes people feel good as Blair did before him. Neither are as intelligent as Gordon Brown or Starmer. Give Keir another year but the public won’t suddenly come round and appreciate his talents.
User avatar
By Boiler
#1903
Crabcakes wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:32 am
Boiler wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 9:39 am Luck had nothing to do with the vaccine rollout. It was planned properly and organised well. Kate Bingham deserves praise for it.
Luck did play a big part:
1. The dosing gap gamble was based on evidence from other vaccines, but it could have backfired and not been as effective or supply issues could have meant 2nd jab supplies were low, leaving the population half protected
2. an early spring could have seen the population out and about much earlier (even without pubs reopening). The cold weather stretching out to now means fewer people socialising still, so more people can be jabbed
3. Variants have (so far) still been effectively stopped by the existing vaccines
4. The effectiveness of the vaccines in preventing transmission has been better that expected
5. There could have been a much higher level of vaccine rejection because of the (utterly miniscule) blood clotting issue
6. Johnson could have subcontracted rollout, so it could have ended up like track & trace (which in itself shows he - or someone - knew this was their real way out so they couldn't risk fucking it up, even though there would have been serious money to make)

Seriously, there were some very lucky breaks for them.
Respectfully Crabs, all apart from (6) is science, not luck - and importantly, has sod-all to do with Johnson.
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