[kreuzberger]

We are in danger of blaming the electorate but, once all other suspects have been eliminated, it is difficult to come to any other conclusion.

Wife 1.0 is from the area and I too have first hand experience of the area. Thick, nasty, racist, and entirely relaxed about that.

[Malcolm Armsteen]

What am I supposed to say? That low educational levels doesn't matter?

Does blaming the electorate help, though? I seem to recall an awful lot of that went on in the Corbyn years.

I'm not blaming them, I'm trying to explain why our message isn't getting through in the face of what is a superficially successful pandemic response by the Tories.

[The Weeping Angel]

And Hartlepool has one of he least educated demographics in the country.

Harsh, but I've been there...

But what about elsewhere Dudley, Sunderland, Harlow, Redditch and other councils yet to declare what does that say about us?

What am I supposed to say? That low educational levels doesn't matter?

Blaming the electorate never works.

[davidjay]

What can you do to win the votes of people who have nothing and love the party who gave it to them?

[Boiler]

What can you do to win the votes of people who have nothing and love the party who gave it to them?

Nothing.

Here's a thought: paraphrasing slightly, have people simply had enough of socialism?

Noting remarks made about the electorate of Hartlepool, they've been given vaccines and Brexit. They'd be thankful to the party that gave them that - and who knows? If Article 50 had been triggered the day after the referendum as Corbyn suggested, maybe that would have been a vote-winner in these now Tory areas.

Fact is: Labour lost. Its message didn't appeal. It's not the fault of the electorate, it's the fault of Labour. It's as simple as that.

[davidjay]

What can you do to win the votes of people who have nothing and love the party who gave it to them?

Nothing.

Here's a thought: paraphrasing slightly, have people had enough of socialism?

They've been telling us that since 1979.

[Crabcakes]

I think a huge, huge amount has to be attributed to the fact that by sheer luck, the most recent thing (the vaccine rollout) has gone brilliantly, and that's all a lot of people will see. That, and the government literally paying people's wages for a big chunk of the year, and the sun starting to shine in pub beer gardens.

None of these factors will be around (or fresh) in 2 years, but what will be around is stagnation and decay from brexit, massive job losses postponed from now because of bailouts, potential loss of Scotland and the break-up of the union, christ knows what in Northern Ireland, cuts to services and council tax hikes, and another 2 years of dodgy wallpaper deals and the like.

Does Starmer need to make a better case for the labour deal and really start hammering home solid policies? Sure. Could he realistically do much of anything about the unique context of these elections? Not really.

[Boiler]

Luck had nothing to do with the vaccine rollout. It was planned properly and organised well. Kate Bingham deserves praise for it.

[Boiler]

I think a huge, huge amount has to be attributed to the fact that by sheer luck, the most recent thing (the vaccine rollout) has gone brilliantly, and that's all a lot of people will see. That, and the government literally paying people's wages for a big chunk of the year, and the sun starting to shine in pub beer gardens.

None of these factors will be around (or fresh) in 2 years, but what will be around is stagnation and decay from brexit, massive job losses postponed from now because of bailouts, potential loss of Scotland and the break-up of the union, christ knows what in Northern Ireland, cuts to services and council tax hikes, and another 2 years of dodgy wallpaper deals and the like.

Does Starmer need to make a better case for the labour deal and really start hammering home solid policies? Sure. Could he realistically do much of anything about the unique context of these elections? Not really.

We've had what we view as decline under the Tories since 2010.

Yet they still win elections.

[The Weeping Angel]

I think a huge, huge amount has to be attributed to the fact that by sheer luck, the most recent thing (the vaccine rollout) has gone brilliantly, and that's all a lot of people will see. That, and the government literally paying people's wages for a big chunk of the year, and the sun starting to shine in pub beer gardens.

None of these factors will be around (or fresh) in 2 years, but what will be around is stagnation and decay from brexit, massive job losses postponed from now because of bailouts, potential loss of Scotland and the break-up of the union, christ knows what in Northern Ireland, cuts to services and council tax hikes, and another 2 years of dodgy wallpaper deals and the like.

Does Starmer need to make a better case for the labour deal and really start hammering home solid policies? Sure. Could he realistically do much of anything about the unique context of these elections? Not really.

Simply waiting for their fall won't do it.