:sunglasses: 100 %
By davidjay
#3282
Boiler wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 6:32 pm
Crabcakes wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 5:22 pm It's worth remembering that it would take ONE GE win by a progressive alliance - which we already know has over 50% of the vote - and then a change to PR, and the Tories would never win a majority again. Ever.
But the two major parties we have absolutely, positively do NOT want PR. PR is viewed - especially by Tories - as a road to permanent logjam, of "never getting things done" whilst the minor partners squabble about minutiae.
Surely even the Jezzites have realised by now that the only way to ever get the Tories out is PR?
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By Cyclist
#3306
davidjay wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 8:44 pm

Surely even the Jezzites have realised by now that the only way to ever get the Tories out is PR?

You're assuming Corbynites are interested in getting rid of the Tories. They seem to be more interested in ideological purity than gaining power.
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By davidjay
#3321
Cyclist wrote: Fri May 21, 2021 8:38 am
davidjay wrote: Thu May 20, 2021 8:44 pm

Surely even the Jezzites have realised by now that the only way to ever get the Tories out is PR?

You're assuming Corbynites are interested in getting rid of the Tories. They seem to be more interested in ideological purity than gaining power.
Sorry, I forgot for a moment.
By visage
#3796
Regarding earlier comments about the media; from day one, Corbyn was very happy to say that the media are the enemy, He trumpeted his support for Leveson 2, and was happy to throw red meat to his fanclub about how, once elected, Murdoch would be out on his ear.

But it was never really addressed how, if the media control who wins, that as an opposition party publicly making them your number one target would result in you winning power.

Yet again, pandering to voters in his base seemed more important than looking at voters that werent.
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By Tubby Isaacs
#3808
Interesting point made here, from somebody worth following. This suggests to me that you don't trumpet how socialist you are if people basically see themselves as moderate. As Christabel says in that thread, being moderate will mean different things to different people. so you don't have to take all your policies from 2008 Nick Clegg. But there's at the very least a messaging problem.

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By The Weeping Angel
#3824
Tubby Isaacs wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 11:04 pm Interesting point made here, from somebody worth following. This suggests to me that you don't trumpet how socialist you are if people basically see themselves as moderate. As Christabel says in that thread, being moderate will mean different things to different people. so you don't have to take all your policies from 2008 Nick Clegg. But there's at the very least a messaging problem.

Biden did something similar last year.
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By Crabcakes
#3903
visage wrote: Wed May 26, 2021 9:19 pm Regarding earlier comments about the media; from day one, Corbyn was very happy to say that the media are the enemy, He trumpeted his support for Leveson 2, and was happy to throw red meat to his fanclub about how, once elected, Murdoch would be out on his ear.

But it was never really addressed how, if the media control who wins, that as an opposition party publicly making them your number one target would result in you winning power.

Yet again, pandering to voters in his base seemed more important than looking at voters that werent.
It was, as ever, always assumed that once people had been suitably informed of the wonderfulness of Jez they would immediately form orderly queues to vote for him regardless of what the papers said.

In the same way Johnson likes to shift blame to the public for "not being vigilant" with covid and the like, Corbyn's supporters like to blame the electorate for simply being Tory. Which allowed them at a stroke to write off huge swathes of people's opinions and (political) wants and indeed any sense that there was a need to campaign to win them over. If you weren't onside immediately and stayed there with 100% loyalty simply *because*, then you were obviously a wrong-un all along.
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By davidjay
#3908
As the Corbynista I spoke about a couple of years ago (who sadly died last year) regularly said, "People need to be educated". And as a Tory said, "When we lose we change our leader. When Labour lose they try to change the electorate."

We all know which of those ideas wins elections.
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