Boiler wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 4:21 pm Before long, Labour and the Left will be seen as miserable hand-wringers with their heads up their own arses, whereas if you want fun...No argument about the first part - Labour does need to sort out the whole navel-gazing thing and make its case. But the fun thing - people who have long covid or have lost loved ones aren't having fun. People in NI aren't having fun. Fishermen aren't having fun. Farmers aren't having fun. Small business owners aren't having fun. Legal immigrants aren't having fun. Victims of crime awaiting court dates aren't having fun. NHS workers aren't having fun.
Crabcakes wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 4:35 pm"But they're 'others' and I don't care about them. I care about me and my family."
Boiler wrote: ↑Thu May 20, 2021 4:49 pm "But they're 'others' and I don't care about them. I care about me and my family."Believe it or not, I am fairly cynical and (thanks to a few FB friends from where I grew up among other things) I'm well aware Johnson plays well to certain groups. But it's actually from that I sense things changing. You're right that a hell of a lot of people don't care unless it affects them. What I'm increasingly seeing is people starting to care because it's affecting them. For example, I've got a mate who is an ex-copper in the home counties. He voted Tory all his life up to the 2017 GE. Now he won't touch them again, and is becoming increasingly vocal against them. An in-law of mine was a moaning jobsworth who genuinely considered standing for the Tories as a local councillor because he was pissed off at being inconvenienced by some incredibly minor local issue. Now he's posting anti-Boris things daily.
It pains me to say this, but a lot of forum members here would do well to be members of other forums that aren't so closely-tied politically and take in their views, without necessarily challenging them: members where there's a good spread from e.g. pro-Palestinian supporters to rabid right-wing braggarts from the North East telling you how their Audi R8 is great and they don't care what southern fairies think. People from the "Red Wall" who wanted Brexit and a Labour government, but wouldn't vote for Jez because he embodied the metropolitan elite and their 'irrelevant' concerns, whilst seeing Starmer as a traitor to Brexit then.
Perish the thought, but what would have happened in 2019 if Labour had taken a pro-Brexit stance, on a "will of the people" ticket: would the "Red Wall" losses have been so bad then?
Perish the thought, but what would have happened in 2019 if Labour had taken a pro-Brexit stance, on a "will of the people" ticket: would the "Red Wall" losses have been so bad then?They would have been fucking annihilated. Might have kept a few red wall seats, but elsewhere would have lost loads more. I voted for Labour despite Corbyn. Labour despite Corbyn AND Brexit would have been too much. Certain people on the left would probably have been delighted as they'd have see whatever rump that remained as "real" labour, and anyone who didn't hold their nose as an obvious blairite centrist blue tory scum.
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